Clegg's apology over tuition fees

Dreaming. £50k is a very good salary but it certainly is a long way off from being rich and not needing to worry about money. On that much I agree.

But I think you miss one important point. And that is the idea that it's the degree which enables you to get those higher paid jobs because you are better qualified. And without the degree that you'd not be earning £50k. That's the idea anyway.

Of course there will be plenty of people who will earn this and more without a pesky degree but there will be many MANY more who never do.

The point is that the degree is not really a debt as such but for most it's more akin to a graduate tax.

There are no guarantees in life. Having a degree doesn't mean you will earn loads. I'm sure there are many people with degrees flipping burgers at McD's. But statistically graduates do earn more over a lifetime than those without. So as I've told my daughter. Which camp do you want to be in? The one with a degree, statistically more likely to earn more and therefore have a more comfortable life albeit with a student 'debt'? Or the one without and take the chance that you will be one of the lucky few to succeed without?

Personally I'd rather uni education be free. I'm a big fan of all education being free. But that's unrealistic in the current climate, so like I've said, it's more a case of balancing the cost versus potential reward. And that in my book is still good.

nieguy - it will be interesting to see if this affects the supply of key workers such as teachers and healthcare professionals in expensive areas like london and the south. 50k may sound like a lot of money - and in many areas it is - but there's also rent/mortgage and childcare costs to factor in. Plus tax and NI. I wonder if the extra £217 a month will be the extra that breaks the camels back and means that professionals move to cheaper areas

I WILL NOT FORGET EVER that they will ENSURE THAT SHE HAS A DEBT OF £65.000 so Nick, 'I'm sorry' that is not nearly good enough. Who wants their child to have so much debt and as parents given no time to plan or try to help to save.

Hi Dontaz

Firstly I agree that the lib dems have fucked it up for themselves. To clearly say one thing then welch on it a few months later is unforgivable. Especially when the coalition agreement gave them the opt-out on it. Arguably it's the worst political mistake made for as long as I can remember. I almost voted for the lib dems purely on the issue of student finance so I am glad I didn't.

But... that all said and done, I think we need to stop looking at the fees as a debt. If you actually look at the new system it's actually not that bad. OK, it's not as good as free but both the Tories & Labour were going to introduce higher fees anyway.

The way the repayment's work mean it's actually closer to a graduate tax than a traditional debt/loan. Repayment's don't kick in until you earn £22k a year. At that point you should be taking home £1450ish per month and repaying £7.50.

When you are earning £50k a year, you will be paying back significantly more (£217.50) but then your take home pay should be nearly £3k per month. I think if you ask most young people if they'd pay an extra £217 in taxes to earn £3k a month, they'd say yes!

If you get made unemployed, career break, pregnant or a pay cut then repayments are adjusted/paused.

Don't get me wrong, I've a daughter myself who will be going to uni soon so like most parents I'm trying to get my head around the whole system. But given free is no longer seems to be a realistic option, this seems the next best thing.

It's probably best if we don't fret about the total amount we are repaying but more the monthly repayments. Just in the same way that if I think about the sheer amount of money I've borrowed for my mortgage (and the total I must repay), I'd probably have sleepless nights. But the monthly repayments are fairly comfortable.

Yes, dontaz, I agree the LibDems have screwed it for themselves and can never retrieve things - it is now impossible to regain all that goodwill the students and many others bore them, pre-election.

Saying 'sorry' IS brave I suppose, but unless you say sorry and then make damn sure you go on to put things right, it simply CAN'T be enough. And they can't put things right now; the Conservatives have the whip hand over them and wouldn't countenance it.

A lot of the LibDems DIDN'T vote for the outrageous tuition fees for our children; they're the ones I feel sorry for. Until this happened, they looked to be a party of decent minded people. Vince Cable, Norman Lamb, Nick Clegg and the other pro-sky high student fees voting MPs have now killed their party stone dead.

MPs are so feather bedded and lead such comfortable lifestyles that many of them have no concept of what life is like for the majority - that a debt hanging over our heads - no matter how far into the future - is a worrying black cloud; absolutely NOT a thing with which to endow our young. The Scots and the Welsh understand that.

I feel deeply upset by the way the middle aged generation has treated our young ones. No wonder the number of English applicants to university has dropped so much. I'm ashamed of this English government's philistine attitude to education.

Vince Cable on newsnight he really was squirming to the point he called Nick Clegg 'pledge' getting his words muddled up. If Nick Clegg thinks his 'sorry' will work then he is a 'fool' the students now beginning are getting their £10.000 loans with interest beginning immediately will they forget this, when it is the election year?? As a parent of a daughter who has taken a gap year to decide what to do, I WILL NOT FORGET EVER that they will ENSURE THAT SHE HAS A DEBT OF £65.000 so Nick, 'I'm sorry' that is not nearly good enough. Who wants their child to have so much debt and as parents given no time to plan or try to help to save. Increasing the fees was wrong then and is wrong now they could have raised them slightly even doubled them but to increase to £9.000 was and is a disgrace. They said only a few universities would charge the full fees, that is a lie almost all have and those that have not are charging £8.000 plus so how can they be trusted with anything.

Lib Dems should be wiped out will they be sorry about the NHS or the Welfare Reforms when they wake up and realise what THEY HAVE DONE? I don't think so, his apology actually made me more angry and more determined not to allow them to ever forget.
They have betrayed our young people the people who voted for them, and now Clegg and Gove are going to betray the next generation with his stupid E-BACC so well done LIb Dems happy conference!
Clegg will disappear to Europe and the sooner the better.

I didnt see newsnight, what a shame, i may have i player it.

'Clegg will be quietly wheeled away to that desert island with his packet of fags and 8 favourite records.'

So you think he will go to the House of Lords?

Clegg's mirroring Milliband. The difference being that he's apologising before stepping down in favour of a new broom whereas Milliband apologised from the position of new broom elect. I think some squeaky clean LD candidate will emerge in the next 12 months - a charismatic figure possibly not even in parliament yet - and Clegg will be quietly wheeled away to that desert island with his packet of fags and 8 favourite records.

Vince Cable has been strutting around like such a pompous arse that I'm glad he got a good shoeing from Paxman.

Vince squirming on Newsnight is going to hurt the LibDems, he's the nearest thing they have to a credible future leader. I'd be surprised if Clegg keeps his seat at the next election.

I don't think it matters that much either way. The LibDems have used the coalition to ably demonstrate why they have been out of government for so long. I can foresee a return to the days when they could hold their party conferences in a phone box.

I simply can't see a reason for voting for this generation of LibDems at the next election. Their manifesto promises are, demonstrably, not worth the paper they are written on, they are a party split between the Orange Bookers and the rest and they have shown themselves, through the usual combination of sleaze, larceny, dithering and incompetence, to be the precise mix of self-serving politicians and creeping Jesus' that this country needs like it needs a hole in the head.

Also, between now and Christmas there will be the unedifying spectacle of the bun fight between Chris Huhne and his wife as the truth comes out about that speeding ticket.