Can someone explain to me in simple terms. USA elections

The Wingnuts use 'real America/n' in the same way as 'unpatriotic'. But that's not necessarily what Romney means by it. Usually that's just appealing to the People, ie, not the political class running Washington. Both parties use 'real America' in much the same way (our voters, not theirs, and not those bastards in DC ).

Calling Obama unpatriotic is the Wingnut nod to being politically correct. What they really mean by 'unpatriotic' is 'black'.

Have a look to see if a centrist Republican, say McCain, has ever called Obama unpatriotic. (He hasn't.) In fact, McCain recently defended Hillary Clinton's aide, Huma Abedin, from the Senate floor. Michelle Bachmann (heaven defend us from her) claimed Huma's family were terrorists and that she was 'unpatriotic'. This time it meant 'Muslim'.

The one I find odd if the fact that to criticise the President is unpatriotic.

You can slag off parties and politics and politicians, but not the president... admittedly its not quite been the same with Obama, but I've had amusing conversations with liberal Democrat supporting Americans who HATED Bush's policies and yet wouldn't criticise him in any way near the same way Brits would maul our PM whilst he was in office.

Yes, to my ears 'real American' has serious racist/xenophobic tones.

I'm not sure the sentiment is completely absent in the UK. You hear right-wing people there talking about how awful multiculturalism is and we need to return to good old-fashioned English values and so on. Certainly some people have ideas about what is British and 'un-British'. It may not be to the same extreme as in the US, but then the US is a much more flagrantly patriotic/nationalistic country generally.

I will be restrained with my answer because I admit, my natural tendency is to rant about Republicans.

I think "real" American means different things to different people. Usually if they are the sort of person to be trotting out that term, they are conservative-leaning. I don't think all of those people realise how um.. extreme the term sounds to other people. Some use it relatively innocently, some of them use it in a disgustingly extremist (anti-immigration) way. The most recent use of it is anti-liberal, basically. "Real" Americans agree with Republican policies (pro gun, pro religion). Sarah Palin was big on using this term. Democrats have tried to use it in response to them, but they try not to use it often.

"Pro-American".. is even more nationalistic.

"All-American Boy" I actually don't take too negatively, because I (personally) don't associate racial background with it. I think I've only heard it with regard to middle class, clean-cut kids on the football team, black, hispanic or whatever doesn't matter as much as class. Open to interpretation again, though, as I'm sure to someone else it only means a blonde boy or whatever.

That's what I suspected, but I thought it may have a deeper meaning than 'you agree with immigration laws and 'anchor babies?' hate that term! Well you're not a REAL American!!

Saying someone isn't a 'real' American is racist in itself IMO. Obviously the same applies to all other countries but I cringe at terms like 'All American Boy' etc.

Pro-American is another right-wing catchphrase. The implication being that if you don't agree with them, you are not just anti-conservative, you are anti-AMERICA.

I'm not sure I can explain it because I personally think it's really stupid.

But I sense that the thinking is kind of like this: America is the greatest country ever. Conservatives want to keep America great and to make it even better by undoing all that commie stuff that lefties have put in place. So if you are against conservatives, you are against America, because the only thing the conservatives are doing is trying to keep America great.

This got even more amplified after 9/11, as you can imagine.

I do have a genuine question: What does 'Pro-America' mean? Surely if you live in America, pay taxes etc you are 'Pro American' otherwise you'd be living elsewhere?

It's not a snarky question, I've just never heard anyone here say 'oh, you agree with more immigration? You're not Pro-Australian!' Same with England.

Many thanks if an American can explain what this (actually) means as opposed to the obvious implication. :)

to dreaming :) It is a unique city, yes. Was born and raised there, and my friends there pop to my mind every time I hear "ALL Americans think xyz" etc. No, actually they don't. ALL of my friends own passports, travel, and have opinions which they've based on those travels and their various life experiences. I realise this is a different stereotype but it is a very real one for that city. And dear bob don't get me started on what Republicans think are "real Americans."

And in case any UK folks think I'm just commenting on UK opinions: I actually hear that generalisation more from Americans abroad, about other Americans, especially if they're from a particularly conservative part of the country.

Piglet I don't know, but if some frightening little man chased me around with a plate of them for a day, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't eat them just to shut him up. (It's from a book- the "nichts" bit was my son chiming in; his dad is German and he likes to mix things up a bit)

what are green eggs?

Oh yay, another DC person on the thread!

DC is hilarious. I'm pretty sure it's the only city where people go out to bars in droves to watch the State of the Union speech.

It's also 90% registered Democrat. The Bush years were HELL.

"I do no believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that makes you pro life. In fact, I think in many cases your morality is lacking if all you want is a child born, not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed.

And why would I think you don't?

Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro life, that's pro birth.

We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro life is"

Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun.

I agree with every word of that, and it's very rare that I agree with a theist's viewpoint. Also, remember that these people who claim to be pro life are those who back the death penalty, which is hardly pro life.

I'm just going to drop this here. So very, very funny, and exactly how I feel about the current campaign.

I'm originally from the US. I've not posted in this thread because I have just SO much to say on this topic (was raised in Washington DC so politics is like a local sport to us!) but I think I'd bore the arse off anyone with it all. The Jon Stewart link covers a lot of the current issues I have, though! Get past the bit with Clint yelling at the chair; he doesn't actually stay on that issue for too long.

Sorry, I only know about England! (only lived in London) Is it the same in all the UK? I thought the Scottish system was totally different.

ow, ow, ow

they do in the UK

I doubt it too Hmm.

Piglet, there is indeed a lot of tension between religion and state in certain parts of the country when it comes to education.

I don't think it's impossible for religion and science to coexist in state schools -- they do in England, right? I have to say, as an American, it was really surprising to find out that state schools in England can be CoE or Catholic and exclude local pupils for not being religious enough basically. That would be complete anathema in many parts of the US! Legally, state schools are not supposed to have a religious character.

But I gather they still teach science properly in those schools? My US Catholic school also had no problem teaching physics, biology, etc., we learned evolution was correct.

The problem is that in some areas, you do indeed have people who want the entire curriculum to conform with the Bible. Their efforts usually get challenged legally, so most of these people end up home schooling.

sun went round the earth ffs

I was thinking about the idea of teaching creationism, and trying to force schools to say that evolution was a theory, just one idea among others.

I was considering the idea that there was a religion who felt that their faith required them to believe that the earth went round the sun and the earth was flat. This religion could punish or excommunicate any of its adherents who said otherwise (believe it or not, this has happened).

Now suppose that this religious group had enough inflience to insist that the heliocentric, round-earth theory was not to be taught as fact. How would a geography teacher, or a school of navigation, cope? Could a class be taught about the projection of maps, or astrophysics?

To me, it seems incomprehensible that a publicly-funded school could be forced to obey the desires of the religious group. Would it be possible in America?

It is a real question whether the US will still be one country 150 years from now.

Honestly? I sincerely doubt it.

Also American. I just want to address Extro's claim that she would be a moderate in the US, because while she might be considered so in, say, Alabama, her views would definitely be considered very right-wing on the East Coast.

Extro -- this is not to say I don't find your views very interesting! (while disagreeing with them completely ) But I think you would be misleading the Brits on here to suggest you would be completely mainstream everywhere in the US.

What makes someone right-wing to me is a certain lack of pragmatism when it comes to policy and the desire to extend that to everyone, whether they agree with you or not. Take abortion. If you are really opposed to abortion and think it's murder, then it makes sense you would want to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. But pro-lifers are also usually against contraception, sex ed, all the things that help reduce pregnancy. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

FWIW I went to Catholic school and they had lay people come in and teach proper sex ed. You want to promote abstinence? Show a bunch of 14 year old girls a full-on close-up film of a baby being born (oh the screaming). Show photos of syphalitic genitals. And also, teach them about birth control, so if they do have sex, the least amount of harm will occur.

A lot of us on the East Coast would be quite happy to secede (maybe we can join the EU? ) Then the East Coast Republic wouldn't have to worry about Republicans forcing us to teach creationism, making abortion and contraception illegal, denying climate change, making all guns legal, reinstituting the death penalty, deporting migrants, giving tax breaks to the rich while axing benefits for the poor, etc and so on.

It is a real question whether the US will still be one country 150 years from now.

I disagree with ALL of Extro's views, but at least s/he can articulate things clearly and engage with other views without completely demonising them.

Most discourse in the USA is blind name-calling.

I am a registered US Voter also.
Have voted in the last three US General Elections and am taking care to read up carefully on this one so that my vote is appropriate for my home state.

I know that Exaro's words are VERY representative of a significant part of the US population
which is one of the reasons I have chosen to make my life here.

Extro -- I have been accused of being an Unreconstructed Marxist by British standards here, but then again, I considered the source and said - nah...

I love People For The American Way. I think it is far more The American Way than the way of Falwell and Robertson that it opposes.

WRT the formative sexual experiences of children... The idea that any parent would want to hear about something like that is (to me) incredibly, gobsmackingly, appallingly prurient. If any of my DCs ever disclosed a sexual experience to a teacher I would like to think a teacher would be discreet enough not to ever repeat it to me and smart enough to wonder what exactly my child was trying to say above and beyond what they disclosed. Children do not just disclose sexual experiences to teachers without a good reason. I would rather they disclosed something on their mind to a teacher, a professional with some child protection training, than to some random friend, or the janitor or the bus driver...

Do you honestly think that there is some piece of legislation possible that would make children not talk to a trusted teacher, and would stop a teacher listening and talking to them? That is a very intrusive role of government you are envisaging there.
(But the real question is why would you even think of such a detail?)

Good luck in Ireland. Maybe you could try the congregation of Rev. Ian paisley in NI? You will pass hundreds of Irish women making their way eastwards across the Irish Sea for abortions as you sail west.

I think you would have to have very little faith to be fazed by commentators who are opposed to religion. They are entitled to their opinions. Sometimes critics turn out to be right - look at Sinead O'Connor. 'A prophet is never welcome, etc..'

IdPreferNot, I keep on agreeing with your posts. Add the farm subsidies to business subsidies.

It is a shame but not a surprise no-one's coming to my defence in a rational way.

Because you are so far out of touch with what the mainstream British view is. Got nothing to do with the fact this is MN. For all the criticism MN gets, its more representative than people give credit for. I have to say I'm now actually quite fascinated as to how you vote...

But to be honest, I actually think you are doing a great job of not redressing the balance, but hijacking the thread with a lot of factually incorrect nonsense and don't want to readdress any questions that challenge them. Because what you are saying actually has very little to do with American Elections in reality and is all about you trying to push this idea that Brits are more right wing than they actually are. Also sounds like you are trying to campaign yourself and make these ideas acceptable to British ears, and want to someone to desperately pipe up and support you.

I think I'll stick to topic from now on.

I'm a real American voter, Piglet, and have never been out of North America in my life (or really the US; I took a couple of day trips to Canada when I was younger) so I'm about as steeped in the culture as it comes.

What would you like to know? :)