Just been on a course about new benefit system

This is where your below-NMW cleaners & waiters are living ...

"Housing conditions in Britain are among the worst in Western Europe and cost the nation about £7bn a year by adding to the pressure on the NHS and other public services. A major study warns that a lack of affordable, decent homes, cuts to local authority housing budgets and the Coalition Government's benefit reforms are creating real hardship, misery and ill-health for some of the country's most vulnerable people."
The Independent

"In [Southall] alone, there are 2,500 of these structures. They just go on and on."
Sheds with beds - BBC video

"Instead of looking forward to the London 2012 Olympics, officials in host borough Newham are more concerned with the increasing number of slum landlords in the area."

Those who can't get a shared tool-shed to live in are on the pavement ...

"Almost 4,000 people are sleeping rough on London's streets, an increase of 8 per cent since last year. About half of these are from the UK and the rest from a wide variety of other countries, notably Poland."
The Independent

colouring Oh I am sure there WILL be people claiming HB in London and the South East Tilly but I suspect most if not all of them will already be working so that the HB is a top up.

yes, and they are going to have to move somewhere more affordable or increase their hours of work (e.g. take on an extra job like cleaning), move somewhere smaller etc, just like milliions of other people do in this country already.

Wow so this thread has moved on a bit since the last time I looked...or possibly not.

Let me say this loud and clear, THIS IS AN IDEALOGICAL ATTACK ON THE POOR BY THE RICH!

How do I know that, well apart from it is the poor who are taking the full force of Austerity, plus being as someone said up thread seen as "collateral damage" would indicate that a battle if not a war is under way. Any talk of damage which let us not forget is a nicer word than death / dead makes it clear that the aim of policy goes well beyond the stated outcome of deficit reduction. The cutting back of the state the re introduction of the sainted grammer schools, the attack on human rights, are all indications that this is a project that is more about rebalance power and influence back towards those that have the most power and money.

As an additional, but by far the most imortant bit of evidence for my claim, I would suggest that we consider the past record of the people who are currently in power. The 1980's saw "The largest shake up of welfare benefits for a generation" Funny how each time conservatives come in to power it herelds a shake up of the welfare state. What is more noteworthy though is the way that disabled people were possed as shirkers, scroungers, a waste of resources. Most of the benefits that we are about to lose like DLA were introduced by Thatcher the milk snatcher. Women especialy single mothers were forced to sign up to the csa or face benefit sanctions, hmmm csa how did that work out for people? Why were they targetted becouse idealogicaly the conservatives were horrified that their vision of a wholesome country where the lower orders were seen but never heard was under threat.

But and here is the kicker, we can go back as we all should after all history is there to teach us things as well as for us to appreciate what works and what does not, we can go back to the new poor law of 1830 (England) and 1845 (Scotland), the striking thing is the similarity of the language employerd by the government to justify why they are putting policy in to action. What it tells us is that this is a pattern and the pattern is not a response to economic problems it is a idealogical knee jerk reaction that through out the years has seen the poor as the cause of all the problems, and the disabled as not just the most vulnerable but the easiest to pick off as they are more isolated plus easier totarget either individualy as they have less means to defend aand fight back, or as a group for the same reasons.

Couthy, GB, Mrs D, I luff you.

Not all of us Noddy. Whilst I have three disabled children and a disabled dh, we are a working family. Yes we get DLA, we get child benefit. BUT we are not, at the moment, in a situation where it is survival money.

Why do people who are fortunate enough not to need the benefits system AT THE MOMENT feel the need and in fact seem to think it is ok to just trample all over the lives of those who do as if they somehow own thwm because theynare currently paying taxes? I am sick of the way this country perpetuates this them and us mentality and tries to shine a light on people on benefits as the leeches of everyone else's lifestyles. This is so so wrong and if the govt even caught and prosecuted a fraction of those who dodge tax via savvy accountants we wouldn,t need to chase the sick/unemployed/ disabled. Beet root you sold be ashamed of yourself

Well said DD, its better to challenge the points someone raises that you disagree with rather than comment on them personally.

Claire
Couthy makes valid points, no need for that.

Oh I am sure there WILL be people claiming HB in London and the South East Tilly but I suspect most if not all of them will already be working so that the HB is a top up. I doubt very much that those NOT working (who might then be available to do cleaning etc) will be able to stay.....unless of course they are some of the lucky few in social housing.

I think the benefit system needs a shake up but I am not convinced by all the rhetoric this Govt is coming out with. Then again as someone who needs to live on benefits at the moment I would say that - I know how quickly life can change though and often when you least expect it.

I anticipate that in the next few years I will go back to work and I have a qualification which will enable that, nor will I be entitled to anything once I do as my salary will be good. I will always remember though that someties circumstances change and people who don't get benefits might someday need them - which is why I distrust these changes and worry about their impact.

I might be wrong, it might be just what this country needs but I am doubtful - just as an example, a person in my circumstances will be £120 a month worse off when these changes happen. I can tell you that life is tough now and losing that amount would just be a nightmare. I am fortunate, I can go back to work - some people can't.

I think you need a thread all to yourself, couthymow.

Ha ha ha, wondered how long that would take. Obviously, people who work are not entitled to draw on their national insurance when they do find themselves out of work.

As for cleaners, they are pretty difficult to find here. I would love to have a cleaner but I can't find one that I can afford.

Can't get cleaners easily here, either.

I am shocked though, that all the Eastern Europeans working in top flight hotels are here working illegally!

Colouring, so you think zero people will be claiming hb in the SE and London?

There will be even more demand Tilly once the housing benefit shake up gets going as those who WILL do ironing/gardening/cleaning won't be able to afford to live there.

But there is a lot of demand for cleaners/gardeners in central London where I live and in the SE where DM lives. Its actually really hard to find some one reliable who wants the work, which shows the current system is not functioning well.

And in the boom many jobs were taken by migrants which again shows problems with the system.

I don't class having uncontrolled epilepsy and fibromyalgia as 'certain health issues'. I class them both as debilitating life-long chronic disabilities...

And I don't class my DC's disabilities as 'certain health issues' either.

Try living with uncontrolled epilepsy and fibro for a year, whilst looking after 4 DC's, two if whom have multiple medical needs, then come back and judge me. Until then, STFU about something you can't possibly understand until you have lived it for the past 9 years like I have...

And no, I don't pay for my ironing to be done since they have cut the SS budget for Direct Payments - my DC and I have to work the 'crumpled' look, as it is too dangerous for me to use an iron, yet I get no financial help to pay someone else to do it for me any more.

I only know one person who hires a cleaner - and her husband works in international banking earning £100k+ pa, and she works in a special school as a TA for fun, because she enjoys it, so hires a cleaner as she is working...

I know no-one else who hires a cleaner, despite knowing families as diverse as the single parent on benefits and those earning up to what my friend above's family does...

So who is going to pay for all these cleaners?

'certain health issues'
Most people have 'certain health issues'

Disability and poor health are not 'certain health issues'

Ha ha ha
Ironing round?
Cleaning?
Just who the hell do you think will pay for these luxury services?
Idiot

And how hard is it too set up an ironing or cleaning round

Maybe in you neck of the woods but round here people do their own cleaning.

Beet
Did you miss the bit about some people being too ill to work. Some people having children with severe disabilities?

jupiters
Yep, the last bit of your name is more appropriate.
Many of the people to whom you (misguidedly) refer are working illegally for below NMW. The companies that employ them won't employ people who are here legally, because it costs more.
What is an indigenous Brit by the way, and how can you tell?

I'm agAinst benefits being taken from disabled or those with ill health. But the system DOES need reform. A relative of mine getting 400 housing benefit a month. Her dh is in work. She gave up work when she had dc as it was more cost effective to claim the benefit.

She lives a merry lifestyle. Regular Tickets to west end shows. Sporting events and holidays to Spain. Why should overs be funding her lifestyle when they are far from the poverty line. I don't resent her as the system is there and she is entitled but is seems crazy that this money is spent on luxuries not food childcare etc.

Erm, quite hard when you are not allowed to use an iron on your own clothes. Hot iron + seizures = injuries...

Would those be all the jobs millions of immigrants have been able to find, keep and do over the last five, ten years jobs many of the unemployed Brits won't do because they are too hard or too dirty or well, simply don't pay as well as the taxpayer .

I cannot remember the last time I was served in a hotel or restaurant by an indigenous Brit.
And how hard is it too set up an ironing or cleaning round?

....And yes to what Thumbwitch said

What fucking jobs!

Beetrootjuice.

Wow you did nightshifts too!

I can't even get after school care for my autistic son never mind holiday care never mind night care!

But I guess all that means I'm entitled.

I'd love to work, I am intelligent and resourceful and could do well at lots of things. I even had a career plan and was mid training for a career that wouldve meant I'd not need any benefits I'd not even be eligable for tax credits, but then my sons difficulties became more apparent and he was diagnosed with autism.

So here I am. But it sounds like you think my only problem is not trying hard enough.