Just been on a course about new benefit system

we're spending £40Billion a year just paying the interest on our debts

which we incurred by collectively paying the banks' debts.

So why are you blaming us (and making us pay)?

Sundae, when I moved here there was a fixed rate of HB for single people. With that, I could get a nice 1-bed flat with central heating, double glazing, etc or a ramshackle 2-bed house with neither. If I move out so somebody with children can have the 2 bedrooms, the landlords will renovate the house. It's not been touched since the early 70s. After they've repaired & decorated it, they will put the rent up.

Meanwhile, I'll have to pay the deposit for a one-bed flat - which I can't do - and get my stuff moved with no car and no money.

Have you got any good ideas? If my landlords change their minds about reducing my rent (in exchange for renovations) I'm going to need your suggestions.

So hamster, do you in fact live under a bridge?

If not, why not?

I mean, you could be spending all that money on something more important to you than housing.

SerialKipper

hamster, it's likely that for you, as for most people, your biggest single cost is housing. You may even have a mortgage.

You could in all likelihood save a lot of money, and dig yourself out of debt, by taking your entire family and living under a bridge.

Perhaps you might even splash out on the luxury of a single room, with access to shared kitchen and bathroom, for you and your entire family.

You would then not be spending lots of money on housing.

But why the fuck would you do that?

To cut my living costs to match my earnings.

You spend your money - even decide to go into debt - to achieve the things that are important to you. The money is simply a means to this end.

So it is with national spending. We spend on what we think is important as a nation. It all has to be calculated, and just like a mortgage done with a good eye to the future, to investment and also to the costs of not spending.

What happens in reality, though, is that politicians say to us "Hey, you can have all this great stuff and pay for it later", and lefties go "Yay, let's have it all" and then, when it comes to pay for it later, lefties shout "No, it's unfair." And so the debt grows, and grows, and grows until it eats the heart out of the economy. Did you know that we're spending £40Billion a year just paying the interest on our debts? That's half the education budget.

JuliaScurr

bank bail out £850 billion
total debt £1 trillion (ish) £1.6 Trillion

Extra cost from PFI which is hidden off the books - £300Billion.

and this debt was caused by too many teaching assistants, was it?

I fixed your figures for you.

I don't want to be paying for someone's spare room when there are families waiting for bigger houses. Why should I pay?

Like I said earlier, I don't believe the current focus on fraud is a good idea. Outright fraud is low, I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that we cannot afford our welfare system as it is so we must draw the line somewhere. It's where we draw the line which is the hard part because like I was trying to explain, each claimant will genuinely believe that he/she deserves it. But obviously we cannot just hand out money to everyone because we don't have the money.

The fact is that we take in around £400billion in taxes each year and we spend over £300 billion in health/education & welfare. It wouldn't be so bad if the other departments could get by on the remaining £100 billion but we are actually spending > £600 billion each year.

It really isn't about oh the rich are screwing the poor and we're cutting based on some right wing unsympathetic agenda. It really boils down to simple maths. There isn't enough money to go around.......which bits do you want to keep paying for and which bits must we live without.

bank bail out £850 billion
total debt £1 trillion (ish)

and this debt was caused by too many teaching assistants, was it?

If your child leaves home for Uni at 18 can you still keep HB for a 2 bed property ? For when your child returns home in the hols? I am asking on behalf of my friend who asked yesterday. She is a lone parent on IS and her DS is going to uni in the Autumn

hamster, it's likely that for you, as for most people, your biggest single cost is housing. You may even have a mortgage.

You could in all likelihood save a lot of money, and dig yourself out of debt, by taking your entire family and living under a bridge.

Perhaps you might even splash out on the luxury of a single room, with access to shared kitchen and bathroom, for you and your entire family.

You would then not be spending lots of money on housing.

But why the fuck would you do that?

You spend your money - even decide to go into debt - to achieve the things that are important to you. The money is simply a means to this end.

So it is with national spending. We spend on what we think is important as a nation. It all has to be calculated, and just like a mortgage done with a good eye to the future, to investment and also to the costs of not spending.

You may think education isn't important for the nation. Fine. I beg to differ. But the size of the education bill (or health, or housing) shouldn't be the key factor in deciding that this is the thing that must be cut; the importance of education and impact of the contemplated cut should loom rather larger in the decision-making process.

Scarredbutnotbroken

Nice guy - this is the issue though the cuts are disproportionate to how much the benefits cost the country in the first place. Benefit fraud is a tiny bill every yet and yet tax evasion is vast, billions. What the guts are really about is surely pleasing voters.

Benefit fraud might (might) be small, but the cost of welfare in the UK is immense. The total cost of the welfare state, including healthcare and education, is something like £400 Billion a year.

Nice guy - this is the issue though the cuts are disproportionate to how much the benefits cost the country in the first place. Benefit fraud is a tiny bill every yet and yet tax evasion is vast, billions. What the guts are really about is surely pleasing voters.

Your post about the girl with a nut allergy didn't seem focused on the national balance sheet, niceguy.

My attitude? What attitude is that then? The one which believes that we cannot go on borrowing money and that as a result we have tough choices to make. It's not about what we 'should' be spending money on but more what we can actually 'afford' to spend money on.

All I'm arguing is that we cannot do everything and so we need to choose. It's simple mathematics but because of this, some people mistakenly think I'm some sort of uncaring, capitalistic bastard.

I'm sure there's a lot of money wasted by having millions of different benefits. In some ways, a more streamlined approach will work.

However cutting people's money in such a drastic fashion just smacks of madness. It really does. It's all very well talking about spongers and the like but if all benefit claimants were spongers, then we wouldn't have "shock" stories in the DM paper because it would be around us all the time.

I dread to think what this country will look like in 2-3 years time.

Minimal outcry for bankers fiddling the system so we pay more mortgage interest and they get bailed out by the state. Maximum outcry when someone in need gets state help.

This country is fucked.

unitethresistance

don't agonise - organise!

STOP THE CUTS!

Niceguy, of course she hasn't got DLA for a nut allergy! She may have a nut allergy but, if she's got an allowance, she also has a more serious condition.
Have a look at the DLA Child application form.

Here's the eligibility checklist and the
adult application form
... and for the people who tell me I get "loads of money" for a lower-rate mobility condition, here are the current rates.

The PIP criteria will be narrower, and the DWP has been open from the start that its objective is to reduce the disability budget by 20%.

I know, I warned my friend recently, as her whole life relies on benefits. Her Dh is dla for life, she on goodness knows what since she gave up work and sold her house, no equity left. Her kids over income support level, she seemed to think she won't be effected.

niceguy, maybe she just doesn't discuss the full medical situation with you? Given the attitudes you're not at all shy about displaying on MN, you wouldn't be my first choice for a confidant.

I mean, "now reckons he has photosensitive epilepsy"? Yes, because that'll be something he's self-diagnosed, won't it? Not been told by his neurologist. And how great that he can do some photography on days when he's well - which presumably doesn't involve looking at the flash as it goes off and certainly not multiple repeated flashes. But actually I don't know what his condition-management strategy is - and neither do you.

ASilly you may lose your DLA.

The intention is to rename it PIP and cut the bill by 20%. They plan to do this by changing the thresholds for qualifying - eg one mooted change, again iirc, was that people who go 200 m in a powerchair didn't need PIP because they clearly no longer have mobility difficulties...

(I think that one may have been dropped after it was pointed out that the DLA often pays for the frigging powerchair...)

These changes were announced last year. I can't believe the extent to which they've been totally ignored by the mainstream media.

This is what we were all frothing about - our blog's fallen into disuse now, but the info and rants are still there.

I received advice about the 'bedroom tax' from my LA in February. My HB has already been cut and will go down again next April. I have one spare room and a private landlord.

@Serialkipper. Well that's what she tells me. I couldn't really believe it either but apparently so. Not sure what she's actually told them. She could of course be embellishing the truth a bit?

What an interesting thread. I get cb, ctc and dla, so won't be badly effected.

back to the housing thing, do they expect you to put 3 children of the same sex in one bedroom too? i have a 10 year old ds a 6yr old sds at weekends and a 3 year old ds but we would eventually like to move in together but lack the room for a third bed in bedroom

buggyRunner what course did you go on? The changes have big implications for my work (employment advisor for a charity) and I'm applying for a new job within the organisation. Without wanting to sound cynical I could do with a heads up. Thank you!

DLA is indeed for living care and mobility.

The first thing the local council said to me when I asked about social care was, "Have you applied for DLA?"

I was told to apply for DLA first, then if I still had needs that weren't being met to ask the council again and I'd be assessed separately by their team.

This "two agencies" thing is where both gaps and overlaps can happen, and is one of the very few places where there is a genuine need to reform DLA. But even then the "reform" just consists of getting the agencies to co-ordinate. I'm not sure, but iiuc some councils already charge service users the amount of the care DLA; others iiuc don't.