Just been on a course about new benefit system

but most people already limit their family size already to fit what they can afford. isnt this just levelling the playing field?

Jupiter - its very easy to say "stop having children at three"

Do you honestly think that will stop accidents or children born from assault or whatever? Do you honestly think its fair to say " nope, we won't support that fourth child. We warned you!"

And suppose I have two children and decide to have a third. But whoops, my DH has been made redundant. And Oh Dear, it's triplets! Then what? I know it's not a very likely scenario but it will happen.

And once that year is up, when people are supposed to be used to the new rules, are you saying its ok then to stop supporting fourth and subsequent children regardless of when they were born?

I don't think it's a case of lefts being hysterical.

I honestly think this policy would impact on the services I mentioned. And I'm genuinely interested in how they would be supported.

The fact is, some families will go onto have more children. Those families will then be plunged further into poverty won't they? You can't say it won't happen because it shouldn't.

charlie what part of my post did you not read?

Children already here will continue to receive benefit, only unborn children will not.

Every child is a choice. No one, NO ONE has to go ahead with having a child if they don't want to or can't afford to.

The left always get so hysterical in these discussions with talk of starving and workhouses and orphanages. Beacsue, of course, actually limiting your family to the number of mouths you can actually feed ( even at the taxpayers expense) is such a radical and rightwing idea, isn't it? .

than the current system. But given the majority automatically assume anything the Tories do must be bad, i accept I am possibly in the minority

Why dont you ask the families of the 32 people who have died after being found fit for work, whether they think the Tories are bad.
You could ask these recipients themselves IF THEY WERNT DEAD!

Kipper. I'll just get me sackcloth coat ...

What a lovely idea Jupiter.

How much extra funding will the Social services, adoption departments, foster carers etc get then?

Because those services will get even more stretched aw a result won't they?

Not to mention the NHS who will be dealing with more sick children due to bad diets as parents won't be able to afford decent food.

But then I guess the gov. Can pump more money into healthy eating schemes and parenting classes thus laying the blame completely at the parents feet...

Easy -you pay for all children already in existance but not for any born more than a year, say after you implement the changes.

What about those who have more than three children who were working when they had those children but later fall on hard times?

And is it ever right to punish children for the 'sins' of their parents? Because who do you think will suffer most in households where benefits are reduced?

I do agree on that Jupiter and the idea of one benefit instead of loads. Just wish it was more thought out and not being used to shaft people.

I'm relieved that teh question of unlimited CB and TC for unlimitesd number sof children is finally being addressed.

Up to three children sounds fair to me.

It is NOT fair to expect tax payers, many of whom limit their family size according to income, to bankroll those who pay littl eor no tax at all to have as many children as they fancy.

As for everything else, I agree 100% with Niceguy!

^^ I don't think sunshine wants the proles to realise that, garlic. I have a feeling she likes us docile...

Moaning on the internet does change things, sunshine!
You can petition, tweet, lobby your MP and other representatives, contact the media.

They work for us.

But I agree, one doesn't have to limit one's activism to the internet. And I don't.

"Whats going to happen will happen sitting on the internet and moaning is not going to change it."

Yeah, I mean, phone hacking. No one moaning on the internet could change that, could they?

And after all, rules are made by god, aren't they? No connection to that big building in London and all those MP people - what are they for, anyway?

lol some comments are just plain stupid. I was mearly pointing out there is not much point fretting about it. Whats going to happen will happen sitting on the internet and moaning is not going to change it.

If you want to know what is changing look it up :)

I'm more concerned about CB being in universal credit as I claim CB but not CTC despite being entitled and I don't want to have to claim it.

I would guess cb for existing dc 4 would stand, just no more cb from certain date

garlic butter, thanks for those. Where does it state that child benefits/tax credits are being capped at 3 children as buggyRunner has said?

BuggyRunner, on your course did they specifically state the child benefit cap to 3 kids is coming in? This is going to be massive if that is true but I have not read anything online about this. It will affect a lot of my friends who have more than 3 kids and are receiving those allowances but I cannot believe it would be true.

(Remember they work for us, not t'otherway round! Govt is not free to make 'confidential' policies that affect us all.)

Vivienne - No. Proposals are made public and usually published as PDF files. I found the relevant ones while researching for TooManyCuts. Anyone can do the same.

Benefit Changes Overview: www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/news_and_changes.aspx

Benefit Changes Timetable: www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/news_and_changes/benefit_changes.aspx

Benefit Cap: www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/benefits_news_and_changes/benefit_cap.aspx

On housing benefit:

"In April 2011, maximum local housing allowance (LHA) rates in all areas were reduced ? only three out of ten properties for rent in any area are now affordable for people making a new claim. Unless your rent is already one of the lowest 30 per cent in your area, the maximum LHA you can be paid will be less than your rent."

"From January 2012, the ?shared accommodation rate? will apply to people aged up to 35 years. If you are aged under 35, you are likely to see a cut to your LHA payment and may no longer be able to afford your current property as a result."

"Local housing allowance (LHA) rates for larger households used to include a maximum payment for up to five bedroom properties. From 1 April 2011, the rates are limited to a maximum of four bedrooms."

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/paying_for_a_home/housing_benefit_and_local_housing_allowance/changes_to_local_housing_allowance

"Size criteria will apply in the social rented sector (eg council and housing association properties) replicating the size criteria that applies to Housing Benefit claimants in the private rented sector under the Local Housing Allowance rules. This means that people living in houses larger than they need (under-occupiers) will have to move to somewhere smaller or make up the difference in rent because their Housing Benefit will be reduced:
14% cut in Housing Benefit if you under-occupy by one bedroom
25% cut in Housing Benefit if you under-occupy by two or more bedrooms

"This is only for working-age people but it is expected to affect 670,000 social sector tenants.

"LHA rates will be increased in line with the Consumer Price Index instead of the market rents in each area. The connection with actual rents will be lost."

www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/news_and_changes/benefit_changes.aspx?page=16619

DWP impact report on making contribution-based ESA one year only. States that it expects people will be thrown onto Housing Benefit to make up part of the shortfall.
www.parliament.uk/documents/impact-assessments/IA11-022BN.pdf

Hansard, written answer by Maria Miller, Minister for the Disabled, 18 Oct 2010:
"One factor being considered in developing options for the new assessment is the need for reform of disability living allowance to deliver savings of 20% of working age expenditure."
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm101018/text/101018w0002.htm

If these are proposals would the information given on this course be confidential.

Can someone please post a link to the official document which outlines all these changes? Otherwise it just sounds like chinese whispers.