Gove does it again!

Ken Baker introduced GCSEs, last time I looked he was a Tory.

I do hope that there will be substance, rather than spin, in changing the status quo. I remember that '1950s' school programme a few years ago on Channel 4, where pupils who had just finished their GCSEs had to go 'back in time' and learn and be taught as it was in the 1950s - they took real O-level exam papers. The difference between what the scored at GCSE and what they scored at O-level was pretty significant. O-levels, I think, were harder. Also, people who were at school in the 1950s can, invariably, read, write, spell and do basic maths. These are skills that are lacking today. I know that the way in which DD has been taught is pretty different from how I was taught (I went to an independent school in the 1980s/1990s. DD is at an outstanding primary. I don't think she's been taught the basics as well as I was, or as well as children in the 1950s were).

I know that the old system wasn't inclusive, it wasn't good if you had special needs or didn't learn by rote. But, the current system is also failing large numbers of pupils too, so I wouldn't accept that going back to the old style will necessarily do a disservice to pupils.

I wasn't around in the 1950s but was the poor spelling, the bad punctuation, the lack of mental arithmetic skills etc all quite so prevalent then as it is now?

In principle I have no objections to raising standards. But I'm very as to whether bringing back O levels is the way to do it.

I was one of the first years to switch to GCSE. Back then it was still very much O level standard. The drop over the years in standards has been because it has simply been allowed to drop.

There's absolutely no reason to say we cannot simply make GCSE questions tougher. Remove/reduce the coursework requirement.

We need to genuinely improve standards so we can compete in the world economy. So whilst making GCSE exams harder is one way, another is to discourage all these soft courses. All these GCSE 'equivalent' courses in drama, dance etc. All flipping useless and a waste of time.

The problem with reintroducing O level & CSE level exams is for those children who are in the middle. Which do they do? Do they stretch and go for O levels at the risk of failing? Or sit the easier CSE and smash it with no real effort?

Mine did higher tier English and it was on Shakespeare only a couple of years ago.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225643/Sack-exam-chiefs-dumbed-science-says-Royal-Society-Chemistry.html

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6187337

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11342847

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/9295162/Exams-must-be-dumbed-down-if-the-text-being-studied-is-mine.html

I don't agree that they have been dumbed down. Standards are much higher at aged 16 than when I was at school doing O levels and CSE's back in the day.

When results go up it's due to exam board fiddling and robotic teachers teaching to the test.

When the results inevitably go down as success is narrowed to a thin number of subjects tested over a couple of weeks I presume this will be the fault of thicky teachers who lack the intelligence to teach children enough to pass these exams.

Personally I think it's a money saving exercise combined with a middle class, home counties, 'I'm more successful than you because I work harder than you, not because I've had loads more opportunities and chances' vote winner.

Tressy, I think you are right. I think it was a Tory progressive who brought that in, which one I can't remember. I blame Labour for persistent dumbing down and grade inflation. It's a shame they didn't scrap GCSEs and that we had to wait for Gove to do it.

Claig, it was the last Tory government that scrapped O levels and brought in GCSE's so why are you blaming Labour for them. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought they were brought in in 1986.

or so I've been told

'claig, are you sure you're not actually Gove?'

There is only one Gove, they didn't make him in cloves, when they made him, they broke the mould.

I am having a laugh, but I do actually agree with Gove too. I think we need higher standards and exams were getting too easy and too many people were getting As and A"s. I think it was devaluing our international reputation, and some schools were moving to IGSCEs in an attempt to maintain the gold standard. We can't afford to have a debased education, we can't suffer grade inflation, we have to maintain a sterling value.

claig, are you sure you're not actually Gove?

claig are you having a laugh or do you really agree with this pig's tripe?

GCSEs need reform but I don't think going back to a divisive system is the way to do it. You need an education system that works for everyone and I don't think O-levels/ CSEs are the way to achieve that.

DC1 is only 12 & I feel old already, there have been so many education changes already that DC4 will face (starts reception in September).

Just when the students/teachers/we the helicopter parents get to grips to what they need to do at age 15-6 for the best chances, they change it for the next ones in the family who have to do something different...

Modular...linear... GSCEs...O levels...etc.

Good point, whathaveiforgootentoday. I can't remember which progressive was responsible for GCSEs, but I think it was a Tory.

I'm not sure why you are knocking labour for the GSCES's it was the tories who introduced them back in the late 80's.

I'm not a labour fan but you can't criticise them for something they didn't do. The grade inflation since, well that's a different matter and criticise away.

It's going to be hard for the first few cohorts because a. the courses won't be properly organised or the teachers experienced with them, and b. people used to routinely seeing CVs with 1,345,346 As on them will think "oh dear this person is fick" if they have something like 4 As and 6 Bs. Which used to be considered excellent.
Why can't they just fix GCSEs? I kind of agree that everyone getting a million As is ridiculous - even if the kids are getting absolutely cleverer (chinny reckon), then it still benefits everyone to discriminate more finely between them.
Also I agree that coursework is prone to horrific fiddling and also favours a certain kind of workload-stress-immune workhorse over people who might write brilliant essays, without coaching, but can't happily work till 10 o'clock every night for two years.
But why can't they fix these problems without bringing back a deliberately devisive system, from a time when a life without qualifications still allowed you to get worthwhile and financially sustainable work? Now that you need a degree to serve coffee ("entry level position in the leisure industry" I suppose) what is going to happen to the people who can't pass the exams at 16?

This is nothing short of perfection, a long awaited Labour correction, Gove could single-handedly win an election.

If Gove carries on like this, they're going to create a new Olympics medal category and award him gold for commonsense. This is nothing short of a revolution, a real evolution over Labour exam dilution. Gove demonstrates the sagacity of a Confucian.

Custardo is quite right, Gove is a twat. You know you're a bad policy maker when the only idea you have for improving education is to go back to how it was in the good old days.

Only the dimwitted believe that educational problems, social problems can be turned around by changing the type of exam people do.