Gove does it again!

O levels weren't rigorous. They were a way of finding out whether you had a good memory. Teaching was by dictation, and O levels were a means of regurgitation.
I regurgitated. I got good grades. I forgot everything I'd learned within a week of reading the notes I'd written.
(I even, to my pride, regurgitated a page of calculus in my physics A level. I had never ever done calculus in my life (I did 'modern maths' for O level that just consisted of colouring in a few bits and pieces as I remember) but I really liked that funny 's' sign that went with it!

It's a similar issue with grammar schools. Everyone assumes (or far more people than actually would) that their child would pass the 11+

conned into thinking that their child will be one of the O-level takers, that is

And in any event, people want a return to O-levels because they have been conned by rising GCSE marks that their child will be one of the ones to take O-levels, not CSEs. They will change their view when they are informed that their child will not be entered for O-levels.

Well said Adela

This is a crazy way of designing an assessment, mixing up being 'hard' with being 'rigorous'.

We could wander round exam rooms sticking pins in pupils. This would make exams harder. But it wouldn't make them very rigorous, because the difficulties aren't coming from what is being assessed. An improved pass rate says ziltch about whether a test had become less rigorous-whether it accurately assesses what is being assessed. The test has to be not whether it is hard, but whether it measures what you want to measure. We don't argue driving tests should be made harder because most people eventually pass, we just want them to rigorously assess ability to drive.

Most people want exams that measure how quickly and effectively people can take in knowledge, and how skilled they are at applying it, because most people use their exam results not to follow up on the subject but as a general sign of aptitude in areas in which they get further training.

O-levels simply weren't that. They didn't reward bright pupils who were quick on the uptake because they tested at the end of a whole period of teaching when the slower kids who were bright-ish had caught up. They didn't reward application of knowledge because high marks could be obtained by regurgitating identikit answers. They were totally unfit for purpose as a sign of anything other than an ability to be schooled.

GCSEs need reform, but a return to O-levels is not that reform.

'The new exams will ?meet or exceed the highest standards in the world for that age group'

That's what he wants, and that's what his opponents want to stop.

daffodill2, what we do know is that social mobility declined under New Labour.

Gove was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He was adopted and worked hard at school. He didn't have the privileges of a Blair. His agenda is about excellence, he wants children to have high aspirations, high standards and a good education.

What he is doing is unpopular, even with elements in his own party and the Coalition, and will have New Labour spitting teeth. He will get all sorts of criticism for it, but he is doing it because he believes it is right to increase standards in education.

Have GCSE's helped deliver a meritocracy?

The question I'd like answered and I wish there were statisitcs about this is:
Has the A/A* working class boy from Newcastle or the black caribbean boy from Peckham managed to enter top training courses like Medicine because he reached the standard but not quite the standard of those that are privileged (and sometimes feel entitled) and educationally offered the best from the age of 3. Or were such professions self-selecting and taking girls ( as they mostly are now) from their types and speaking with their accent?

One thing is for sure, and I think not all Tories are like this, but Gove is - he does not care a damn about classism or elitism. His agenda is not about being fair.

If they are bringing back O levels will they then bring cse exams as well.

I'm all for raisilng the standards but as a country we've never really got to the point of being able to say that vocational courses carry as much weight or respect. Now that is a problem and they need to once and for all address this.

I'd be happy with o levels back but what are they going to do for those who are not going to do them for whatever reason. What on earth happens to these children?

Rigorous for a minority, those who will achieve at A level and degree level. It's only a rigorous system for the small proportion of children that will go through it leaving the majority with 'soft' qualifications. I can't see how leaving the majority of children behind is rigorous.

By showing the world our education is rigourous.

*of strengthening the education system

I don't see bring back O-levels as a way strengthening the education system.

...strengthening the education system and making British young people respected accross the world as educated well.

Gove could be doing something very positive for this country's long term future by...

No he doesn't. The man is an idiot.

I very much agree with Claig. Gove could be doing something very positive for this country's long term future. The man talks sense.

'Why can't the government see that?'

I think the management consultants are waiting in the wings. Someone has to take the blame in order for there to be change.

I agree, it is not the fault of the teachers. There is too much teacher bashing. That is the wrong target.

is that they imply that the current profession is not professional enough, not good enough and that the dumbing down and grade inflation is the fault of the teachers.

Except the dumbing down is because of the NC, exam board specification (content outlined by govt) and exam board competition. It's not down to teachers not being professional enough. Yes, there are teachers who are not very good but, IME, the VAST majority of teachers are truly dedicated professionals who put themselves through hell to achieve the very best for their students. Why can't the government see that?

Why doesn't Gove actually ask teachers how to improve education rather than trying to replicate his own school days? That's not the mark of an intelligent future leader. It's the mark of an unimaginative, autocratic , egotistical ideologue.

This is a revolution, this is 1789, this is the return of the 'good old days', turning back the hands of time.

The Daily Mail is talking about him being a potential leader, the one true Tory in the Cabinet, this is like the charge on Balaclava with a bayonet.

Apparently, according to the Daily Mail, the reason that Gove kept his plans secret from Coalition members and many Tory ministers and even some civil servants in his own department, is because he feared a progressive sabotage of the plan. He kept it up his sleeve, he played it close to his chest, he thought that would be best.

He is nothing if not a clever man, let us watch what becomes of the plan.

For those you doubt the value of going back to the "good old days", I recommend the words of the Daily Mail's excellent Melanie Phillips

'Back to the fifties? We should be so lucky.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2162806/Wow-Michael-Gove-Back-future.html?ito=feeds-newsxml