Milliband on Englishness .... confused much?

I think many (including me) were hoodwinked by Blair, he's not straight at all, probably one of the biggest liars on the planet.

I am really amazed how anyone could have been hoodwinked by Blair - oozing faux sincerity from every pore. It's one of the great puzzles of modern times

iron - Ethnic group and racial group are not the same thing. There are people from all racial groups who are Jewish, being Jewish is also considered an ethnic group in itself. It's considered hereditary both within it as a religious group and has been considered hereditary by general society for a long time. Milliband is essentially saying he is from and raised in a Jewish family and considers himself culturally so (as people can belong to many cultural groups) but is now personally atheist.

Gottanngeddes. Jews may have been an ethnic groups years ago, but now any racial group can be jewish and are.

Claig I'm geting worried about you....next you'll be saying you would like a 'love in' with old goofy! Only joking!. I thought Cameron was nice and genuine when I met him, but I wonder how much he says just to keep in power, or to appease different groups.
I think many (including me) were hoodwinked by Blair, he's not straight at all, probably one of the biggest liars on the planet.

p.s. Power is an aphrodisiac!!

Ironman - Jews are an ethnic group. Hence it can be a cultural/ethnic identity as well as a religious one.

Ed that is.

He needs to speak a lot louder though ans stop enunciating like Tony Blair - it turns my stomach.

Labour have some good people. Rachel Reeves is very good.

The US economist Paul Krugman was on Newsnight the other night and he was excellent and the same old repetitive arguments of the venture capitalists, that growth can only occur within private coompanies rather than public, were depasse and unconvincing. Labour are now pushing at an open door, if they play it right, they'll get the winning score.

Well said, breadandbutterfly. The true feelings of the people have been denied them too long, and now Ed is changing the Labour leitmotif, liberating the people and returning Labour to the roots that link it to the people.

If he carries on like this, then the public may find more in common with Labour than with the Bullingdon Berties.

I think Ed's on the right lines - ordinary people have loved the opprtunity to enjoy being British and wave union jacks affordedby the jubilee - I have felt rather saddened that unlike other countries who are proud of their culture and heritage we have been hiding our rather charming light under a bushel.

Long may the national pride and determination to enjoy ourselves in the face if deeply inappropriate weather continue!

I agree that Miliband is part of thge political elite, but then so are the Tories and Nick Clegg and all of them. I do like him. He seems genuine to me, and the best of the New Labour bunch. At first I thought he was not very good, but I have changed my mind and now think he is good. But there was a time when i thought Tony Blair was a 'straight kinda guy', so time will tell.

I saw Tony Benn when he did his 'tour' in 2002 (one of my first dates with DH), he smoked his pipe and drank tea out of a thermos. Such a lovely, engaging, warm man. In my mind he had a tartan blanket over his knees but I think that's my imagination!

Oh, yes Tony Ben. I could listen to him all day, I wouldn't even care too much what he was saying, he has a wonderful voice. Something Ed lacks.

I think you are wrong though claig, I really do, Ed is his father's son and over time I think that will become more obvious. I don't think he is defending the union because he particularly believes in it, that is down the the spin doctors.

I haven't read any of Ralph Milibands books, can't say I am at all bothered to do so. Too many authors and thinkers have been apt to reinterpret marx, perhaps if they hadn't we wouldn't be bashing commies for crimes committed under Stalin.

It is possible to be Jewish and atheist.

I did not agree with most of the Jones article. Workers in England certainly do feel they have a country, well the people I met at the Jubilee Pageant on Sunday certainly thought they did! Does Jones mean that workers don't feel they have a 'stake' in the country as they once did. Many industries have now vanished, and perhaps as he says belonging to the steel works or other large industry gave the worker a feeling of identity which has now been lost.
Also mass immigration has meant that in many cities and towns, people have lost the sense of 'English' identity because many different cultures live together and many different languages are spoken. Mass immigration and it's impact on English identity is the elephant in the room, it's not spoken about and should be.

I'd love Tony Benn to help me with my homework, even now.

How can Miliband be an atheist and Jewish? Sounds like a contradiction in terms. It's like me being a Christian atheist. Or is it me?

For once I disagree with Claig I don't like Miliband at all, I believe he is part of the political elite. I feel he his far removed from an ordinary person. His father was the Marxist Ralph Miliband and I was forced to read his tedious books at Uni.
I suppose I would be part of the political elite if Tony Benn was helping me with my homework as he did the Miliband brothers.
TBH Claig I have not read Miliband's speech but I will. .

I like Ed Miliband. He is fantastic - humble and genuine. He even admitted that he looks a bit like Wallace. He is not too grand to laugh at himself, because he is not in it for his own ego, but for the nation. That is why he is defending the Union, because he believes in it.

I think the progressives in his party may well ditch him before the election and replace him with someone worse. That is a shame, because I think despite all the negative press about him, people will come to see that he is a great and genuine man.

I can't see Ed in no 10 (not for long at least). He'll be decapitated around election time. TBH, I can't see Nick, Dave or Ed sticking around for 2 parliaments.

Miliband has made a very good speech. He is bringing Labour back to the people, away from the spin doctors and their parochial progressive concerns, and bringing it back to represent the people and their wishes. That can only be a good thing. He has broken loose from the progressive pager management and that is why Owen Jones says he is going in the wrong direction. He is moving in the direction of the people and in the direction of power at the next election.

Yes, good point. I think you are right.

Claig I have to disagree with your post on one crucial point
The London banker, if brought up in England, shares the same language, the same culture and the same music as the checkout worker in Manchester. They watch the same TV programmes, studied the same GCSEs, support the same football teams, and watch the same pageant on their TV screens.

The same football teams? Are you having a laugh? The Manchester based checkout worker'll be a blue and the banker a red

The communists want a world without borders, without nation states, with loss of sovereignty for national governments, which is exactly what the architects of globalisation, and their progressives, also want.

But the people want nations, they feel pride in their traditions and institutions, which is why millions camp out in the rain to celebrate the Queen. The progressives, and the BBC coverage, don't understand the people, they ridicule them and insult their intelligence. The people feel national pride, they don't feel that England is lost or that there is an incoherence about Englishness. Unlike the progressive, they are proud to be English, proud of their history and traditions and are prepared to defend their way of life.

That is why they are prepared to defend their national borders, whatever the Marxist or the globalist may preach.

Why do you think that we still defend our national borders? Do you believe what the Marxists say, that is a relic of outdated capitalist imperialism? Can't you see through the communist trick to undermine the nation state and deliver a globalised empire for the elite?

Why do we defend our country? one without boarders. If corporations and business can demand open boarders for the exploitation of labour, consumers and markets, why are we still defending our national boarders? I know why but do you claig? I also know, whatever I say will not convince you because I can be neatly written off as a marxist. I am very impressed though, it seems you have spent a lot of time reading, just always keep in mind that history is written by the Victors. It isn't clever to keep up with the "communists are nasty toads rhetoric"

Just as the partisans fought against Mussolini, or the Hungarians rose up against the communists.

'what a brilliant thing it would be if no one went to war'

But that will never happen, that is pie-in-the-sky. There will always be a need to defend your country, always be a need to defend against attack, just as the Romanovs tried to defend themselves against Bolshevik attack.