Where did it all go wrong

houseonthecorner Plan B?

" people being told they will never get anywhere in life,"

YABU... the only people who say this are those who don't want others to succeed. And IME that tends to be those that are stuck at the bottom of the ladder... not the ones further up.

No, I mean the socialist puppet politicians, who cooked the books in Greece along with their banker masters.

It's not the socialists who caused this - it's the free marketers. Lagarde is no socialist, the lot imposing austerity from Spain to Ireland are not socialists, I suppose you could call the bankers socialists in that they certainly be;lieve in soialising their losses...but stretching the definition rather far?

I agree with many of the things that left wingers say they want. But we know that they are tricksters too. We know that communists trick people into losing freedom and lead them into low growth and poverty. We know that they don't mean what they say. We know that the green policies are another trick of the elite to 'limit growth' of the masses.

We see the Greek 'socialists', who were in power when teh books were fiddled with teh aid of bankers, in their smart suits, meeting in Brussels with the European elite trying to do deals to maintain the austerity on the Greek people. And we hear how Lagarde has little sympathy for teh Greek people, she has more sympathy with Africa, she says. And still the 'socialists' in their smart suits, who caused it all, who caused parents to abandon and sell their children, and who led to pensioners shooting themselves in desperation, are wined and dined in luxury in the palaces of Brussels.

They tricked the people, they lied and cooked the books, and now they pretend that they have the solution.

'you seem to be saying we need more of the same'

No, I am saying that they are fooling us. They are tricksters and the joke is on us. They tricked us with the financial collapse, they tricked the people of Spain, Ireland and Greece with their talk of boom without bust. They set them up for a fall and now Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again.

Yes, there are protest artists. But the Dead Kennedys are not as big as the Pistols. They don't get teh svengali media exposure.

Many left wing thinkers abandoned communism after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They lost the argument. Thatcher triumphed.

The new 'protest', pushed by the establishment and the svengalis, is about environmentalism and green issues. The svengalis and elite rub their hands as they trick more and more youth into that sheep pen, because it is about 'limits to growth' and will cut the employment prospects and growth prospects for the youth that are herded along that path.

I agree the establishment has put forward false prophets claig, that is without doubt what happens when the media men pick up on which way the wind is blowing

It is no accident that the capitalist class want to assume control over all popular art and music, it makes money, they can control the masses and dumb them down, they use that power to perpetuate their own wealth and power, wake up claig you seem to have a fantastic grasp of neo-liberal economics and politics, culture and music but you seem to be saying we need more of the same.

I agree the establishment has put forward false prophets claig, that is without doubt what happens when the media men pick up on which way the wind is blowing, I agree as regards the sex Pistols, I like the music but it essentially has nothing of importance to impart, it is cleansed and spun out to pacify the population. Not all punk music falls into this category which is why I mentioned the kennedys. All of their music challenges the political order.

I disagree with you that certain antagonistic or radical elements have fallen out of favour, they have simply been wiped and young people have been led to believe there are no alternatives. Things that challenge Neo-liberalism and free markets such as communism have been portrayed as a failed experiment, why? That is the power of the media to colour your opinions, that is why you think communism is dead, as is anarchy. Those are the ONLY challenges to the established order.

It was the art school continuation of panto; it was the follow up to Dame Edna and Sir Les Patterson, the proto-punks of prime time.

They even chose panto villain names like Sid Vicious and Johnny Rotten. It was a joke and the TV producers pretend it was real.

And from that dumbed down theatre and fake protest, they then went on to make fake art. They stuck dead sheep and cows in glass and charged mugs a pretty penny to walk past. They called it "cool Britannia", but they were having a laugh. It was "fool Britannia" and Johnny Rotten was the Joker.

There is ONE singer doing protest music Ryoko...not my cup o tea but he IS doing it and I have forgotten his bloody name! Hes very currrent...South London white rapper...can't remember! He's good...and angry too. The kids need that I think.

The Daily Mail railed, lock the louts up in jail, make them get a job, cut their welfare if all they do is gob. And the grannies shook their heads and shook their walking sticks at the yoof, what happened to the Britain of their youth. And the svengalis and litterati and chatterati and fashion moguls rubbed their hands, they ripped up clothes and fatsened them back up with safety pins and stuck them in fashion shows. They called it "cool Britannia", they said it was a "revolution", but as always it was an establishment control solution.

'The punk movement really appealed to the working classes.'

So did the Teddy Boys, the rockers, the mods and the skinheads. But they weren't about protest either.

A amjor reason that Marxism has little appeal is because communism has been shown to fail and the Soviet empire collapsed. Fukiyama wrote the book, 'The End of History', which partially argued that the consensus was now anti-communist, since communism had failed.

The hippy protest movements existed in times of plenty, when teh economy was booming and things were good. But teh Thatcherite consensus, followed by Blair and Brown, has changed attitudes. The class war and clause 4 were abandoned and in a time of austerity, young people want jobs not ideological class struggle.

The music movements are acts and releases, they are theatre. They act as an escape valve and a deflection, and money is made by moguls from them. Captain Sensible loved dressing up, and so did Adam Ant, just like Bowie and the rest. It was artifice, it was glam, it was panto with plastic, pins and polystyrene. They called it 'punk' to shock the pink rinse grannies and the establishment pretend that this is protest and the TV producers make programmes that maintain the myth.

I didn't know Jello was up to anything these days, so off to find some Guantanamo School Of Medicine, Thanks NicholasTeakozy. I don't think the Kennedys ever really opted into commercialisation, all their music was/is radical. The kid's love cesspools in eden. Although I do fast forward through "rolling down the stairs"

It's true the student's protest but these students are mostly from middle class backgrounds, just as the hippies before them were. The punk movement really appealed to the working classes. There is nothing like that now. Working class kids are living in a sort of cultural vacuum. I don't think it's the availability of happy drugs, my generation smoked a lot of pot and we were all really opinionated and most of friends were zelots who genuinely thought they would change the world. I campaigned over animal rights mainly, started supporting various charities at 12 through fundraising and eventually started protesting and writing articles for magazines.

Youngsters are not engaged with the wider world and they are not radical, the colleges and universities have been largely clensed from any radical thinking, womens studies, marx, left wing, anti-war, in fact anything which questions fascism.

Or maybe the leadership agree with Clegg and the progressives and disagree with Tories like Heffer.

The real Tories on the right, Simon Heffer in the Daily Mail etc., are in favour of grammar schools and want them back. They say that the Tory leadership is not real Tory in not bringing them back.

The leadership will never bring them back because they fear that New Labour will score an open goal with the public by playing the elitist card. I think they fear it would be like the 45% tax rate; it would be springtime for New Labour.

It's great that you and your kids listen to Dead Kennedys Mini. Mine do too. Guantanamo School Of Medicine is the band fronted by the saintly Jello now.

In my opinion it all started going tits up for social mobility when the Labour Party abolished Grammar Schools. There was more social mobility in the supposedly class obsessed 50s and 60s due to Grammar Schools turning out well educated working class kids. The Tories, no matter what they say, will never vote for them to return as their hateful spawn were being bested by council house kids, and we can't have that.

Yes, the Pistols were great. A lot of it was down to Johnny Rotten's voice. Fantastic, but he lost it with PIL, in my opinion.

Yes, exactly. But at least the music was interesting!

Yes, good point. He was a character and a clever man. But it had nothing to do with protest, everything to do with a cash nest.

Claig - I was about to say that Mclaren was the Cowell of the 70s. Sad, but true.

And the real swindle is the rock'n'roll swindle - the swindle the TV producers preach to us that this was protest.

This was acting, it was fake, it was a rock'n'roll swindle.