BBC bias. Boris 51.5%: "tight margin". Hollande 51.7%: "clear victory"

i think probably the Daily Mail particularly dislikes the Beeb because the Daily Mail isn't strictly a right-wing paper - it is a very illiberal paper. It doesn't give a toss about free market capitalism, it wants to appeal to the herd instinct which is to fear any difference...

Plenty of left wingers but the Mail and shout along with it - the Beeb on the other hand is liberal-left - with a tinge of intellectualism that the Mail is jsut going to hate.

I used to think the Beeb wasn't biased - this before the 1997 election - i thought it was normal for the press to attack the government with all the venom it could. i thought that was part of its job in fact. but then came a swathe of less biting comedy, less spiky news articles...they even continued bitching about the previous administration for the next 13 years! So i realised it: there was such a bias. I still hear on radio 4 single-sided bellyaching about the miners strike FFS.... either present both sides, or don't present at all....

I haven't read this whole thread, apologies if this has already been covered.

The Daily Mail doesn't like the BBC much, but even they published this:

Is the BBC representing the nation

I was surprised because I thought that it would claim the BBC has a left-wing bias as this thread does, in fact it claims the BBC is failing to be critical of the current government on issues important to the people of this country.

I think that the BBC in general does a lot of good, but it does feel pressure at the moment to tread carefully around the government because it fears further cuts.

I choose not to watch the bbc news, its ridiculous in its lefty bias. I prefer sky.

Obviously press barons have agendas. But we can choose to buy the Mirror, the Mail or The Guardian, each of which has a different agenda.

We have no choice with the BBC, which claims to have none.

Poulay please read the following BBC blog.

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/bias_at_the_bbc.html

i have no doubt your retort will be along the lines of 'well they would say that wouldn't they'.

You know there are no conspiracies at every corner. Yes Press barons have tried to drive agendas starting with Hearst papers in the US or the agenda of some American press in 1939-40 trying to get the US to join with Germany. ( How the right in the US forget that)

But just because some right wing press bandy about phrases like 'fair and balanced' or 'we report you decide' it does not make them the benign news delivery men.

It means they saw a market for an opionated broadcast that appealed to a large percent of the market and they deliver that.

On the grooming issue, the #2 most read story currently is 'Brothel boss targeted girl, 12'.

Hmm, really.

Yet drill down and you find

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-17845741

"A Carlisle man accused of inciting child prostitution offered the mother of one of his alleged victims a free kebab if she would have sex with him, a trial has heard."

This man is a brothel boss first and foremost? Really?

The BBC COMPLETELY ignores the parallels with the grooming scandal in Rochdale. For the BBC this is just a 'brothel boss'.

This despite similar disturbing racism/sexism threads in this case:

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/14/child-grooming-takeaway-azah-miah_n_1514992.html

'One of Azad Miah's under-age victims complained to the police about him three years before his eventual arrest, his trial heard.

His youngest victim, aged 12, said she eventually gave up talking to the police in 2008 about the takeaway owner pestering her for sex in exchange for cash because nothing was being done.'

'Also that year, a woman complained to police that Miah had began to undress and told her to take her clothes off on her second day of work at his Spice of India restaurant in Carlisle city centre.

And one of the girls who Miah was cleared of encouraging to have sex for money had also complained to police about him in 2008 about claims he persistently harassed her, the court heard.

Cumbria Constabulary did not launch its investigation into Miah though until Christmas 2010 following a disclosure by one of his victims to one of its "partnership agencies" about claims of child prostitution.'

The shameful bias of the BBC helps create a culture in which the plight of these girls is ignored because of fears of racism, cultural insensitivity, and so on.

Oh dear.

Nobody suggests the Daily Mail is other than a partisan, right-wing paper. Indeed, when you go there, there is a 'Right Minds' link on each page.

The BBC however, is claimed not to be. This is clearly not true.

Interesting comparison of headlines, Novack. Crafty b....s, aren't they?

The debate is about bias in the media.

The UK is a sovereign parlament as well you know it which is why we can age wars without any permission from the EU. You can sit and think otherwise and spout off about the Human rights act but the HRA is interpreted by our sovereign judiciary. Winston Churchill was all for the European Court of Human rights and that has nothing to do with E. Except sharing a word in the title.

The discussion was whether or not the UK was sovereign, not whether or not powers were passed voluntarily. Am I correct in thinking that because you've chosen to resort to abuse that you're admitting that the UK isn't sovereign?

As for those thinking the Daily Fail does not show any kind of bias in it's reporting please note in todays news how they covered the story that Bishop Mitt Romney and his admission he did some gay bashing as a school kid.

The headline is as follows....
US Republican Presidential candidate forced to apologize 'for holding down gay taunt classmate and chopping off his hair' during school 'attack'

Note no mention of Mitt Romney by name instead an overly liong headline to distract readers from bothering because that's american news and Daily Fail is A US paper.

Same news paper on the same day this time covering the story that President Obama of the US sees no reason for there to be bigotry or inequality with US marriage laws.

Obama's sudden support for gay marriage nets a $1MILLION in just 90 minutes - as Republicans accuse him of 'playing politics'

Note the name is splashed first and foremost and the article does not cover the reason that the society needs to be based on equality for all. Instead it is an attack piece to suggest that the president recieved a bonus or money for believing in equality.

I report you decide..

As for those thinking the Daily Fail does not show any kind of bias in it's reporting please note in todays news how they covered the story that Bishop Mitt Romney and his admission he did some gay bashing as a school kid.

The headline is as follows....US Republican Presidential candidate forced to apologize 'for holding down gay taunt classmate and chopping off his hair' during school 'attack'

Note no mention of Mitt Romney by name instead an overly liong headline to distract readers from bothering because that's american news and Daily Fail is A US paper.

Same news paper on the same day this time covering the story that President Obama of the US sees no reason for there to be bigotry or inequality with US marriage laws.

Obama's sudden support for gay marriage nets a $1MILLION in just 90 minutes - as Republicans accuse him of 'playing politics'

Note the name is splashed first and foremost and the article does not cover the reason that the society needs to be based on equality for all. Instead it is an attack piece to suggest that the president recieved a bonus or money for believing in equality.

I report you decide..

And just so you know EEC is EC is EU it's all the same. FACT.

The UK deliberately choose to pass fishing, farming policy to EU. It was Winston Churchill's idea to set up the court of Human rights so what is wrong with that now

flatpack you are obviously just a tin foil hat wearing right winger like Faaaraaaaggeeeeee A man who is often spouting conspiracy nonsense on conspiracy radio stations like Alex Jones in the USA. One day you will realise that they are only in it to make millions from spouting that kind of nonsense because people like you buy into it and buy their books and allow then so sell millions in advertisements towards you.

Now go off and watch some fox news for a new story of impeding world doom then come back. And adjust your tin foil hat.

The EEC doesn't exist. It stopped existing in 1992 when the Maastricht treaty was signed.

Parliament isn't Sovereign when it can't pass laws in certain areas. When the EU takes over an area (called, ironically, a 'competence') the right to pass laws moves from the nation state to the European Commission (unelected), which drafts the laws that the Parliament votes on. There are areas where the EU has sole control and areas where member states have to agree on a policy between them but that policy isn't dictated by the EU.

These areas include agriculture and fisheries, where the UK hasn't had a right to set rules on (for example) pesticides or net sizes or fishing quotas for decades. Trade is another one. So is employment where the EU's social policy effectively specifies who can work where. The environment, transport, and 'human rights' are three more examples of 'competencies'.

If the UK wishes to pass a law on, for example, net size, it has to ask its Commissioner to propose legislation which the Commission votes on or vetoes and, if it makes it out of the Commission, it goes to Parliament.

So if you consider a parliament sovereign when it has no power over all those things, then yes, it is 'sovereign'. I don't consider that sovereign.

And what you call a 'FACT' is, in fact, an opinion.

The nationality of the cast majority of these men is British.

Khat is legal in Great Britain. So are Batteries for manpads. If the US want a citizen they are free to come and ask for extradition. They haven't regarding khat so non story.

UK is run by it's sovereign parliament. It is the sovereign UK parliament that decides how to implement and how ti chooses to enforce the laws that are passed in Brussels, not Brussels

e'g' Uk police have always been very strict about wearing a helmet on a motorcycle or moped. Spanish Police only recently started to enforce the wring of a helmet on a moped or motorcycle. Up until the last few years they only enforced that law for maybe a week a year and wouldn't bat an eyelid as you drove past without helmet.

Brussels sets the norms for the common market and therefore of course it has to deal with unfair competition across the EEC. But the UKIP generally lump all EU rules into one bucket t suit their agenda. FACT is UKIP are an irrelevant little party whoa e being taken for a ride by their leaders supping up the EU gravy train whilst socialising with Ultra-right wing fascist groups.

NovacknGood

You do know that UKIP campaigns to leave the EU? The UK isn't independent because it's run from Brussels. That was originally the whole point of UKIP although it's become a political party instead of just a protest group.

As for your assertion afterwards that all ideas from the 'Left' are good, I think that a quick glimpse at the brutal legacy of socialism across half the world is in order.

Solopower

It matters because this is a particular cultural problem in a small number of communities. Brendan O'Neill's article in the Telegraph does a good job on this particular issue:

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100157120/muslims-sex-gangs-and-white-working-class-women/

Sorry for bossy tone of last post, especially the last bit - late for work. What's up for discussion is anything people want to talk about. Sorry.

If the story is about religion or ethnicity, then it's relevant.

Otherwise, why does it matter that the gang of men who attacked young girls were Asians? Tragic as it is, this is one story. It happened in one place at one time. It's not as if it's always gangs of Asian men who rape children, is it? So how is their ethnicity or religion relevant? It doesn't even appear to symbolise an underlying problem in society, as it is so rare that this sort of thing happens. What is an underlying problem is that some people are always on the lookout for a justification for their prejudices (I am not accusing you. Poulay), and the BBC is trying to avoid fanning those flames.

With the Catholic priests, on the other hand, that is the whole point. It was because they were in a position of power and had unique access to vulnerable children that they were able to commit their crimes, and it was because of the behaviour of the Cath Church in not putting a stop to it that it carried on for so long.

However, the point you are making is that the BBC is biased. I agree, of course it is. Whether to the right or left or whether this is a good or bad thing is what is up for discussion.

"BBC reported all these details and more on the 29th of January 2012 So they reported this story about KHAT and possible Somali smuggling 5 weeks before CNN

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16722383"

Searching for 'Al Shabaab' - 0 results found
Searching for 'terrorism' - 0 results found
Searching for 'Islam' - 0 results found

So er, no they didn't report all the details at all. The Daily Mail, and CNN, conservative and liberal media outlets respectively, BOTH managed to report that links are being alleged between khaat and Al Shabaab/Al Qaeda.

Given the prevalence of Al Shabaab within Somalia, and the fact that it's a fucked-up mess of a country (piracy anyone?), it's not exactly hard to believe.

Somalia is a total basket case, and when it comes to a story about trade/smuggling with Somalia, the latter article does a terrible disservice by not mentioning Somalia, and BOTH fail abysmally in not mentioning Al Shabaab.

If you choose to believe Somalian drug dealers over the US Department of Homeland Security, well that's up to you.

'However, I agree with you that there are some social problems that are caused by the fact that people of different origins sometimes don't get on. I don't see how not mentioning the nationality or religion of people in the news makes that worse. I don't see how it could help the situation if they were mentioned.'

Er but we do mention it. If there's a Christian preacher who preaches against gays, or a Catholic paedophile priest, that is mentioned.

The Catholic church, as I perceive it, has protected paedophiles and has proved an environment where paedophiles can thrive. The 'Catholic church' part of the story is relevant, and it is shouted out in every story.

Equally, we have recently learned that Muslims are grooming non-Muslim girls to be raped. Again, their Muslim culture/religion is relevant, but it's not mentioned by the BBC.

A quick search of the BBC website for 'Catholic' gives the following results as the top 10:

www.google.co.uk/search?q=catholic+site%3Abbc.co.uk
'Management buy out Irish Catholic paper' - has a dig at the Vatican for 'silencing' media
'Association of Catholic Priests discuss Church's future' - paedophiles, strongly anti-Vatican
'Birmingham Catholic Archdiocese defends abuse case handling' - paedophiles
'Catholic Church leadership in denial mode: Martin McGuinness' - paedophiles, again
'This World: The Shame of the Catholic Church' - paedophiles
'Paul Ryan defends budget at Catholic university' - has a dig at a Republican, AND Catholics
'Catholic pupils 'invited to sign anti-gay marriage petition'' - Catholic bigotry (as perceived by the BBC)
'Can Catholic teaching justify Ryan plan?' - another in the same vein as the above, re Republicans/Catholics
'Catholic schools must give 'balanced perspective' over gay marriage' - another 'Catholics are bigots' story
'Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s' - a gleeful piece of Catholic bashing, saying that 'up to 11 boys' were castrated by the RCC, butignores the fact that the 'scientific' establishment in Holland, as part of the once mainstream eugenics movement, castrated more than 400 people: www.getreligion.org/2012/03/hare-hunter-field-castration-for-deviancy/

So basically 10 stories relating to 'Catholic', 9 of them negative stories, and the 'Management buy out' story, while not particularly negative chooses to focus on the Vatican for 'silencing'. Cf. this reporting: www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0508/1224315740655.html which manages to report the story on business lines, with no criticism of the Vatican slipped in.

So we could reasonably say 10 out of 10 negative stories for the top 10 BBC hits for 'Catholic'.

How about Muslim?

www.google.co.uk/search?q=muslim+site%3Abbc.co.uk

'Golfer Sahra Hassan awarded by Muslim Women's Sport Foundation' - a puff piece about an absolute non-entity of a female golfer, not even notable enough to have a Wikipedia page
'Amnesty International finds anti-Muslim bias in Europe' - Muslims prejudiced against
'Prominent Muslim Metin Mekhtiyev stabbed in Moscow' - Muslim 'of Azerbaijani origin' 'leader at the Islamic Cultural Centre of Russia' stabbed by 'extreme right' (except there's actually no evidence at all of this, just speculation by his friends). 'Mr Mekhtiyev was a "decent, much-respected and loved person", he said, and had been involved in the Muslim community, with migrants and in social work.', and the official word that he was robbed, is just glossed over.
'Scouts back Muslim girl clothing' - puff piece about burkas for Scouts
'The brave Muslim women of Gujarat' - puff piece about 'brave Muslim' women in India
'Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association helping Hartlepool' - puff piece about Muslims planting trees
'Moscow's Muslims find no room in the mosque' - neutral story about Muslim immigration to Russia
'NYPD criticised for treatment of Muslims' - NYPD biased against Muslims
'Muslim hate crime phone line aims to help victims' - 'first UK helpline for victims of Islamophobia'
'Sri Lanka Buddhist monks destroy Muslim shrine' - Buddhists bigoted against Muslims

so out of the top 10 stories we have:

four puff pieces about good Muslims
five pieces about alleged anti-Muslim sentiment
and one neutral story about the rise of Islam in Russia.

The contrast between BBC reportage on 'Catholic' and 'Muslim' could clearly not be much more stark - At least 9 out of 10 of the 'Catholic' stories are entirely negative, and the 10th has a quick dig, while NONE of the 10 'Muslim' stories are negative.

(Incidentally in their feel-good story about the Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth, they tell us that
'The Ahmadiyya community takes its name from its founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

It has bases in more than 175 countries and is renowned for it services to the community in the fields of education and health.'

What they don't tell us, and I quote from Wikipedia is that 'Most mainstream Muslims consider both Ahmadi movements to be non-Muslim and heretical'

and indeed that in many countries the Ahmadiyya are persecuted by 'true Muslims'. These countries include the UK, and yet you won't find ANY reporting of this on the BBC.

Here's the Wimbledon Guardian: www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/news/ahmadiyya/

"The owner of one Tooting halal butchers said his trade had fallen by nearly 50 per cent in three months. He said: ?We have lost so much business because some people refuse to come here just because I am Ahmadi. They use words against me like ?Kafir?, which means I am not Muslim."

"Another Ahmadi butcher, who came to London in 2001 after fleeing Pakistan, won an employment tribunal last month after being sacked in March.

Employment Judge Baron accepted Azizur Rahman, owner of Haji Halal Meat in Upper Tooting Road, pressured his employee to convert to the Sunni Muslim faith."

Do you think it would be POSSIBLE that a Christian businessman who was found by a tribunal to have pressurised his non-Christian employee into converting to Christianity would not be reported by the BBC?)

Solopower, Astr0naut's dad thinks that the BBC is right wing biased, but Andrew Marr and Peter Sissons said it has a 'liberal bias'.

Police suspect and proof are two differing things.

KHAT is entirely legal in UK so who cares. Daily Fail have an Islamophobic agenda

CNN story is from the 8th March 2012

BBC reported all these details and more on the 29th of January 2012 So they reported this story about KHAT and possible Somali smuggling 5 weeks before CNN

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16722383