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Original poster

France and Greece Election results!

554 replies

LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 02:04

So, what do you think it means for Europe?

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EdithWeston · 07/05/2012 12:23

The nationalisation was carried out under the Bank of England Act 1946 which boiled down to Government compulsory purchase of all shares in the Bank, ownership being taken by the Treasury or its nominees.

Original poster
LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 12:21

Edith, your link isn't working for me, it is linking to a main page rather than an article.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/05/2012 12:21

And that same unease you're feeling is why no-one's buying... consumers and investors alike. In a vicious circle situation it's hard to put the brakes on it spiralling downwards.

Original poster
LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 12:19

Edith, yes I read that a while back on Wiki too. This is where I am confused, so the "private" company behind the bank of England just sold all of it to the goverment? all of it? and for how much was the Bank of England bought back either in whole or parcially for? Wiki doesn't mention that stuff.

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EdithWeston · 07/05/2012 12:18

I don't know how accurate this is, but it does suggest that Chinese banks have sizeable risky "off balance sheet" debts.

Original poster
LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 12:17

I have been feeling uneasy about the banks since they collapsed, uneasy about the way the vunerable are treated in this country, uneasy about the press/government/police etc since hacking, uneasy about the way the Greek people are being spoken about and treated and very uneasy about the Euro.

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thirdhill · 07/05/2012 12:16

Nobody wants to kill off banking, cogito. We simply want them to be rewarded and punished according to their actions.

EdithWeston · 07/05/2012 12:15

The Bank of England was privately owned until nationalisation in 1946, and since 1998 it has been an independent public body owned by the Treasury Solicitor on behalf of the Government. 1998 was also when Labour gave it independence in setting monetary policy.

thirdhill · 07/05/2012 12:14

Lady I think it's about who they choose to listen to, rather than bright people not querying stuff...

Tackling public expenditure as a % of GDP is a separate issue from sound economic policy.

Original poster
LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 12:13

So is there a country that has an economy that is not in more debt then Cog?

I remember being Hmm at Brown over his end to boom and bust thing, he broke the 5 year cycle, he didn't break the cycle. To be fair to Brown the bust was caused by an internation issue rather than a national issue.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/05/2012 12:12

"what else have we to trade Cogito?"

We still have a surprisingly large manufacturing sector. We can trade financial services... back to those nasty old banks that so many would like to kill off entirely. We have an intellectual power-base... a company based in Cambridge is the brain behind the Apple I-Pad chip, for example. Plenty going on.

thirdhill · 07/05/2012 12:12

Quantitative easing as we all know is where the state purchases financial assets from banks. Ooh that means the banks generates revenue, and hey presto they can repay their bail outs. Shame that failed to translate into more lending.

Like the bottom 20%, the top 10% are squeezed much more than the middle income band. Something's not working, and Vince Cable being a trained economist, too...

EdithWeston · 07/05/2012 12:12

Here's a useful BBC Q&A about quantative easing, the first round of which was under Labour.

Original poster
LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 12:11

Claig, I still am in confusion about the ownership of the Bank of England, is it still owned by persons unknown? or it is a case of persons unknown and a bit of the Government, since the last labour government?

I don't understand why these bright people don't query this sort of stuff?

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/05/2012 12:10

@Lady... a country in debt is not a disaster in itself because economies tend to be cyclical. Gordon Brown himself started out by espousing the 'Golden Rule' of fiscal policy ... where debt is only taken on in the down part of the cycle to finance long-term, capital, growth projects that benefit society and is then covered by the surplus generated when the economy returns to growth. What debt should not be used for under the Golden Rule is current expenditure. What Brown did was precisely that. Created a massive welfare state and public sector (which is not capital, long-term or wealth generating) at a time when we could have gone into surplus and then gambled there would never be another downturn. Remember 'an end to boom and bust'.

So debt is not a bad thing for an economy to a point, but when we get past that point and we're spending as much as we do on the NHS financing the debt, something has got out of kilter.

Original poster
LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 12:09

England has been dominated a "Tourist destination" by the EU, we have been knocked at the back of the knees by Europe regarding manufacture, all we have is banking, I know enough to know we eat all our own produced asparagus for example, what else have we to trade Cogito?

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claig · 07/05/2012 12:07

If no country is economically healthy and if businesses across the planet are being squeezed as growth plummets (except maybe for banks who seem to receive endless quantitaive easing), then who is lending us money and where are they getting it from?

Original poster
LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 12:07

Did you read my link?

First they came for ...

That is the governments attitude, the same as Mandlesons, the press's attitude and the propoganda got through to joe public, they couldn't give a shit about the Greeks, and are doing nothing to help these people!

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/05/2012 12:05

So we need to encourage business from those healthy countries to trade with us, buy our goods and/or locate to the UK where they can create jobs. But if the government makes moves to do that they get yelled at for 'helping the rich' ... 'helping their fat-cat mates'.

thirdhill · 07/05/2012 12:04

So tell us where the released credit has gone?

Original poster
LadyWithEDS · 07/05/2012 12:04

Cogito, you are bright and have information available to you, please show me a country's economy that is not in debt and living beyond it's means?

I suspect you will say China, who I read in The New Scientist, is steeling the water from Bangladesh!

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thirdhill · 07/05/2012 12:04

There are in fact some countries and currencies that are economically healthy, only not in the west.

claig · 07/05/2012 12:03

Very good point LadyEDS. There are no appeals for the Greeks on TV. Mandelson told us on Radio 4's Today programme that the Greeks are the authors of their own problems.

As a Greek told John Humphrey on the Today programme this morning, the money that is going into Greece from the EU is not helping Greek people, it is all going to pay interest to teh bankers, whoi caused the financial crisis in teh first place.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/05/2012 12:03

Bank revenue is about generating income. Quantitiative easing is about releasing credit.

thirdhill · 07/05/2012 12:02

Dave and Gideon chose to print and pump money into the banks, rather than direct expenditure. The banks chose to keep that money, and will undoubtedly "owe" the state nothing before too long.

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