Government Recommends a further 2.69million English Families to be sent to food banks

Take a look at the document on the link I posted on Fri 04-May-12 14:40:10.

Percentage of all awards that were 4th or subsequent awards 41%

If someone isn't managing on their existing benefits, giving them debt to pay back isn't going to help. They'll have less money for everyday expenses, eventually apply for another loan then have even less for day to day living.

45. In summary the evidence on Crisis Loans shows that:

? Moving to a remote telephone based service has led to unacceptable increases in volumes of applications and costs which are in part driven by widespread misuse of the system;
? It is difficult and expensive to make robust and fully evidenced discretionary decisions about levels of need and the extent of a crisis without some local knowledge;
? The design and delivery of the current scheme does not identify vulnerable people and refer them on to appropriate services where further additional support is needed. As a result a small but significant number of people are locked into a counterproductive and damaging cycle of increasing debt through repeat applications and awards.

I agree with you OP,
Tinned peas can't heat your house.
And there is a dignity about quietly receiving a loan that you can pay back.

And I'm speechless at the comment that somebody made above, something along the lines of "she could be buying junk food"

Actually no, cross-cultural studies have shown that the more resources women have the better fed, better dressed and better educated the children are.

I think people should read this follow up document:

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/social-fund-localisation-response.pdf

imogen, it won't be millions. There will be other reasons for the loans included in the 1.3 million who applied.

It's 3 days of food, for up to 3 parcels. So up to 9 days of food. After that they are referred to other organisations. It's a short term measure to help a family out of an immediate situation.

The document in the OP says that the government will write to councils to outline their expectations for the transition. So maybe, while the services are in a development/planning phase in some areas, they will 'expect' that the council provides cash solutions.

We do not expect local authorities to recreate Community Care Grants and Crisis Loans locally

So they don't expect the same scheme from councils. That doesn't mean they can't provide some short term loan service.

"If the amount of tax that is dodged by the wealthy in this country were collected there would be no need for food parcels."
A) it will never happen. Tax avoidance has existed for as long as tax has.
B) any tax collected will be spent. People's expectations of what the government should be doing for them will rise even higher. Upon any economic downturn people would still be reliant on crisis loans and food parcels because they are economically illiterate and spend frivilously during the good times.

flatpack, once benefits are paid to the recipient it is their money.

You don't have to be on benefits to apply for a crisis loan. It isn't just people on benefits that are using the food banks. It's also those on low income who've had unexpected problems.

Food banks aren't funded by taxes, the food is donated by members of the public and are manned by volunteers.

I have never stopped to wonder where does my tax money go. I don't have a problem with tax and I don't need to see a poor person, an elderly person or someone with disabilities and scrutinise them before deciding if they are worthy of help. That isn't my responsibility.

Are crisis loans better than food parcels, yes because it isn't charity it is a loan. It is a rather neutral way of helping people rather than making them beg for charity. Food parcels and charity freebies are not good for the recipients and not good for society either.

is it right to deny women the right to buy their family fresh food as they can currently do?

ignoring the sexism, noone is denying them anything. i dont have a 'right to buy fresh food', nor does anyone else.

Do you think millions of mothers on this site should be forced to travel miles for a food parcel rather than go to their local DWP who will issue them with a crisis loan (which they pay back)?

again, ignoring the sexism, its completed normal for healthy grown ups to have to travel.

BeingaMumIsFun

Oh, what a surprise. Your only reference is the Guardian. I thought you might have some information that wasn't from the Daily Mail's left-wing equivalent.

Let me answer your loaded question, then. Yes, it is right because it is the taxpayer who pays. They don't have a "right to buy fresh food". It's not their money.

And you keep saying they 'pay it back' - well, only because the money is automatically deducted from future benefits so there's no way to avoid it.

And yes, people have every right to decide how their money is spent.

There's a pdf document here that has the statistics for loan applications for year ending Dec 2010. (If you click the link, depending on your PC settings, Adobe will open within the browser window. If you right click you can save to your desktop and open from there.)

2.7 million loans were given to just under 1.3 million applicants. Some will be for general living expenses.(I tried to find some stats on the purpose of the loans but haven't so far). But it's clear that it won't be this number of people turning up at food banks.

I agree with flatpack's point that the council can provide services based on the needs of the local people, rather than what central government decides. I'd expect them to have access to data and make decisions accordingly.

"the funding will not be ring-fenced"

I read this as they will have £x from central government for locally based provision. How they split that up, between building relationships with existing services and what they provide in cash, is up to the council. I don't think it means they'll be able to filter it off and build e.g. a new carpark.

If they've had 5,000 people a year applying for loans for food, the sensible thing to do is work with local food banks to make these accessible, e.g. set one up near the DWP office where people would have visited anyway for a crisis loan. If they've only had 100 people applying then setting up an emergency loan service would possibly be a cheaper option in terms of administration costs.

The food parcels contain carbs, protein, milk, fruit and veg. This lack of choice is for 3-9 days. Lots of families live out of the store cupboard for a few days towards the end of the month as wages run dry. Families go camping/self catering and live out of tins.

Presumably the government's expectations on how they spend the money will include details for rent advances, heating, electricity etc. I don't see how they can replace £10 to put on the meter with anything else.

I do think people should be encouraged to go to the CAB as soon as possible, not 9 days later. Does a referral from the trust give higher priority?

I meant to say poor people as in my sympathy goes out to them

Most of us if we fall a bit short one month cause Say, for example, the washing machine has broken down use our credit cards to keep us going - interest free if we are savvy. We catch up in a month or two.

Most of these more people do not get free banking or loans from anywhere reputable - short term loans which are paid back makes sense to not encourage loan sharks and spiralling debt.

Surely we are a compassionate society - what is your problem with this .hamster and .guy2? Seems to me costs nothing except pays us all for being nice! Makes us feel a little better.

You keep saying there is no fresh food in a food parcel. Can you show me some information listing what is in a food parcel please?

A loan allows women to go to a local shop to buy fresh food of her choice for her family and pensioners cannot carry food parcels
Yes except she may not do that anyway and spend the money on other things or just junk food. And if pensioners cannot carry a food parcel, how do they get their shopping home from a local shop?

Totem, people I know have needed light, heat, a cooker, uniform...tinned peas don't help.

I honestly don't see how a loan to buy food is better than a gift of food. If they are short of cash while waiting for benefits to come through, when their benefits are sorted out the last thing they want is a loan to pay back. Even if it's only at £1-£2 a week it puts extra strain on the family's already tight budget.

The councils that want to alleviate their overcrowding problems will probably offer some service that allows people to move out of the borough.

If there's a problem with homelessness, I can't see them removing a service that results in more people being on the emergency/temporary housing lists.

It isn't £83, that's the average. Loans for rent and deposits will run into £100s.

The 2.96/2.69 million figure isn't accurate. That's the number of people who got crisis loans they won't all be for food, so it won't be that number of people turning up at the Trussell Trust for the parcels.

It says on the dwp's site that one of the reasons for the loan is for rent in advance. That's something a lot of people on benefit and low income will still need help with. I can't see local councils in the overcrowded boroughs not providing something for this. They want people to move out to less crowded areas.

I don't think living off tinned food for a few days is any great hardship, and it doesn't get them into (more) debt. See this thread on AIBU.

The £83 is average, there will be loans of a greater value for things such as replacing things after a disaster. I wonder what they will do if their local council doesn't provide the service.