Is there an 'underclass' on MN?

madaboutmadmen Middle class! that's a construct designed to divide people.

Doesn't matter if it's a mansion or a caravan in Knightsbridge if you can afford to live in a 2m place why shouldn't you be taxed higher for it? and if you bought it so long ago it only cost you two donkeys and a bag of turnips, why not sell it and move to a more affordable place where you will pay lower council tax?.

The term Underclass is an insult used by those who think some are not working class but scum who shouldn't even count as a class at all, so they speak of the underclass and liken them to parasites, bigotry prevails all walks of life.

The social and economic inequalities caused under capitalism do not cause envy more than it causes suffering. I am constantly aware that "this underclass" that OP mentions are the product of a system and a society which is deeply flawed.

I also think that the underclass are the would be working class, a class of people now so disenfranchised and marginalised that whether they are engaged in envy is not the problem, just a symptom. If the riots were caused by a breakdown in society, parenting, dysfunctional upbringing and low educational attainment that speaks volumes, not about them as individuals but us as a society, that these people see no other way of acquiring what others take for granted other than to steel it.

I know wealthy people from top public schools and I know people who are so poor that they have an empty fridge and no heating by Wednesday but if I am friends with them they all have something in common, they have empathy, they are generous and they don't brag.

I have no problem with people who earn plenty of money and do well for themselves, good for them. I'm from a working class background but would be seen as middle class by now. We do ok but far from being minted, our money goes as far as it needs to and we have nothing 'flash'.

I wouldn't worry what people on MN say, it's an internet forum. The Government is making sure that anyone with plenty of money will do even better from what I can see of it.

long - your were talking to another poster about the £2m property previously.

& no i dont live in Mayfair or anywhere like that! someone who lives in Mayfair would die of shock if they saw where i live.

Wasabi - I'm still challenging you to link to a single humble, £2m property on Rightmove. Presumably you live in Mayfair / Chelsea. Which is a lifestyle choice in itself.

I've only recently found MN . I haven't been on sites about money but those sites that I have been on do seem to be largely taken up with people from priviliged backgrounds. I would have thought WildSwans ( name that reminds me of a book of suffering!) that you would have felt very at home on MN.

It is true the anonimity seems to make people lose tact.

Re issue:Tax is painful, most people don't realise how lucky they are and the huge divide that has happened in salaries in the last 20 years is going to cause anger and envy. Perhaps, society with its 'overclass' or 'fatcatclass' is going to become more vitriolic and rebellious because History tells us huge divides cause dis-ease.

I see myself as privilged but I think people are entitled to express their consternation when some comfortable people don't realise their comfortability is a luxury - most people do not have opportunities to own a £2M house, it is absurd to not see that the huge hikes in some salaries mean there is less to go around for others. Pay your taxes and count your blessings.

Well Outranged, it does appear a rather strange that someone is prepared to criticise my contributrion to society (job creation during a recession), have very little idea about how business acutally works, but does not seem to be able to explain their own contribution other than 'challenging political dogma'.

Essential, as you are being bombarded by obtuse and irrelevant questioning, I'd just like to point out that I understand where you are coming from.

I'm assuming anyone who can afford that house can afford cleaners. :o

But otherwise...we bought our little three bed house for about 68,000 pounds and I am giving up work so I can keep on top of the cleaning and remodeling on it so a big place like that would do me in!

cheerful - think about the cleaning!

where i live it buys you a 3 bed flat....

Where I live, the equivalent of 2M pounds would buy you this...

& might i suggest that the person who gets the role i am currently recruiting for, is more interested in me creating the job off my own back than your 'challenging political dogma'.

& he wont actually care what i earn. unlike interestingly you. ....

look at marrieds & Mr marrieds contribution.....

.....on MN?

your contribution to society is 'challenging political dogma'?

I haven't said any such thing about some business being good and some bad Tilly,why do you repeatedly claim this? Please show me where I have said this

as for improving society, well challenging political dogma is one of the things I like to do - like

we need to keep the super rich happy by allowing them to avoid paying tax in this country or else they will leave the UK (implying this would be a bad thing)

or
we need to pay million pound salary/remuneration packages to get the best talent and thus serve shareholders best - there are plenty of super talented people who would work hard for a fraction of these salaries and serve shareholders very well

or
if people in mega paid jobs do not perform we have only 2 options - either give them a huge bonus anyhow or a golden handshake

you say some business is good and some bad. please name a business you think is good and one you think is bad.

you dont like society as it is. what is your practical contribution towards improving it?

Tilly one again I don't understand your questions

and what is your practical contribution?

EFA- so which businesses are good and which bad?

I would use disenfranchised and not the insulting term "disfunctional", Tilly.
As for "you have strong view that business is bad" - err no I don't. I do think there are some problems for society resulting from how some businesses conduct their affairs but I certainly don't think business is intrinsically bad.

I have strong views that a huge gap between the haves and have nots leads to a society that serves the have nots (ie the majority) very badly and even creates problems for the "haves" who do not get to enjoy the benefits of political stability, freedom from crime and the effects of civil unrest.

EFA you seem to be confusing me with other posters. i havent used the word underclass and said in my view the correct term was disfunctional.

you have strong view that business is bad. what is your view based on?

I do think the word underclass is horrid but I totally understand where the OP is coming from in terms of the "bash the rich" mumsnet sentiment. However, I have actually found it quite useful, as people are much more candid in terms of showing their true colours than they would be in real life.

Many people who are "rich" from earned income tend to be cash rich but time poor yet their cash donations never seem to be considered as good as giving their time. I just find that bizarre. Instead of the UK government continuing to give to countries like India, greater philanthropy should be encouraged through the tax system. Although completely take Boffin's point.

Incidently Boffin, Lynne Owens is someone I really admire and would love for her to do a chat here. Great idea.

Good links Boffinmum

I like Stella for being clear that she has a valued team to help her balance work and home life. I get fed up with people pretending to do it all without help - in particular with celebs who make a point of never having their nannies in photos (angelina, gwynneth, posh etc)