Confused re attitude to benefits and work experience

can you tell me more about this please: "There's no point pretending to people that hard work is enough, because it isn't. Some people will work really hard to end up in exactly the same place they would have ended up if they hadn't worked so hard. "

i dont get it.

I hear people in India and China are getting a bit up themselves and are beginning to ask for a greater share in their countries' wealth creation. How greedy and obnoxious of them.

The people will low aspirations now are often the people who in the past were perfectly willing to work hard at what they did. The fools asked for a wage that would enable them to support their families, though, so the work was taken away from them and given to people willing to work and still starve in other countries. Some people need convincing that even if they do work hard at maths, they will find employment at the end of it, because to them, hard work has been proven not to be enough to get by in life, albeit it makes you more exploitable by those who only have their own interests at heart. You also need flexibility, resourcefulness, resilience, good mental health generally, intelligence, and a certain degree of ruthlessness, things which are very difficult to teach if they don't come naturally. There's no point pretending to people that hard work is enough, because it isn't. Some people will work really hard to end up in exactly the same place they would have ended up if they hadn't worked so hard. Unless they can trust that they will be properly looked after and given a bit of respect for the hard work that they do and that the work that they do is indeed useful to society, they won't be super keen to bust a gut, because they will perceive it as working very hard for someone else's unfair benefit.

This is an interesting link though Tilly because those who are long term unemployed (and I mean here those who have never worked) have a higher than average number among them who cannot read, let alone do basic maths. I have met them in the area I worked in (deprived part of the SE) and I always used to make appointments by phone because I could not guarantee always that my clients could read an appointment letter. Having worked in an affulent area previously it came as a shock to find such a number of people who were not literate.

I will never forget a mother coming to see me in despair with her 13 year old son because he had been out of school for 6 months (shockingly nobody appeared to have noticed this). Not surprisingly her 13 year old son did not really want to talk to me but eventually said he wanted to "leave school and work with cars". Some gentle but insistant questioning elicited the information that he could scarcely read (for whatever reason) and could not follow the curriculum. I did explain to him that getting any job would be much easier for him if he could read confidently and made a swift call to the local Education Welfare service asking them to support the boy and his Mum to get him back into school and his educational needs addressed.

so yes we have completely lost the plot about education, excellence & hard work & employabilty.

& we have spent all the money & more that we didnt have during the good times.

It's not new to undervalue maths though. I was laughed at for liking maths at school.

poor maths reduces someones chance of getting a job & yet it is socially acceptable.

"The number of adults with poor numeracy skills has reached 17 million in England alone ? very nearly half the working-age population"
www.nationalnumeracy.org.uk/news/9/index.htmlindex.html

"If you've got poor numeracy, you're twice as likely to be unemployed, twice as likely to become a teenage parent, twice as likely to suffer depression."
www.guardian.co.uk/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2012/mar/07/world-maths-day-adult-innumeracy?newsfeed=true

I don't think having a dream is necessarily bad as long as you are realistic. For example I'd love to work in a forensics lab but know it won't happen so apply for every job I can. Doesn't mean I can't continue to think about what my dream job would be.

I happen to be rather good at Maths. I still can't get a job.

yes to your second post.

no its about a culture of entitlement (i am not talking about benefits here, but general entitlement to UK standard of living), not being realistic about how competitive the world is, how hard to you to work to cover your bills etc etc.

It seems to me it's those who ought to know better who encourage an obsession with getting rich quick. ie those in work who make a profit out of advertising hedonism.

Ah, so it's because people want to be popstars that they can't be bothered to work out how to do maths.... Silly me. What about those politicians who had a "classical" education and also happily say they are poor at maths???

stuff = material possetions = high standard of living refered to in OP (but i am talking generally about british culture)

the link is about a cause of unemployment & stuck in low paid jobs.

sorry woolly not wolly

rabbit - no. as to wolly

No. Still don't understand how this is relevant to the thread, or to your claim that all we want is fame and 'stuff' (whatever stuff is.)

wolly, the other half - things that arent valued: hard work and excellence. the link says:

"Research has shown that those with poor maths skills are far more likely to be out of work, or to be stuck in low-paid jobs. Carol Taylor, director of operations at NIACE, said the UK had a "huge numeracy problem" but many people saw being bad at maths as a "badge of honour".

TheRealityTillyMinto - do you really think this hankering for fame and fortune is cause by a benefits culture? That seems bizarre and illogical thinking to me.

Tilly: Not sure what that link has to do with 'fame and stuff' ?

I think a bit of dreaming goes on, especially when we have shows like X Factor etc. my 17 year old niece would love all the fame but is sensibly in college and working part time to support herself a bit (and buy the stuff she likes ).

So yeah I can see that this is possible but I think MOST kids realise their dream is just that - a dream, and they adjust their lives accordingly.

DP is a HT in London & this is normal. e.g

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12525317

(& i am not going to believe it is a conpriacy between the BBC, National Institute of Adult Continuing Education etc.)

as a culture, we want fame & stuff, dont value hard work and excellence

Or so the media and people like Ian Duncan Smith would have you believe. To be honest, the only person I've ever met who thinks like this was a seven year old girl whose parents sent her to stage school every week.

I don't want fame I just want a job.