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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Confused re attitude to benefits and work experience

460 replies

catontheroof · 07/03/2012 12:17

Your thoughts please - why has it become so politically incorrect to suggest that fit adults in this country should be expected to work for a living?

I believe that we need a safety net but cannot understand why people should not have to take jobs that they are qualified for if those jobs exist. I also cannot understand why people "deserve" tax credits etc.

If large chunks of our population do not work then our GDP is low. The only way that we can afford to have so many on benefits with a relatively high standard of living is by importing goods from other countries where the workers live and work in atrocious conditions.

Why do we think that it is right and proper that people in this country sit around being paid not to work whilst tens of thousands all over the world work in sweat shops to provide them with a lifestyle?

If our fit population all worked then we'd increase GDP and have money to help people in other countries where there is real poverty.

OP posts:
Agincourt · 07/03/2012 18:50

should we all nekkid?

did jesus say this?

no it was god, it was those god damn apples

OpinionatedMum · 07/03/2012 18:48

Sell your own fucking washing machine and give the proceeds to 'the real poor' then.

TheRealityTillyMinto · 07/03/2012 18:48

Because we have been sold the consumerist dream

Original poster
catontheroof · 07/03/2012 18:48

How do cleaners help people in Africa? if everyone on benefits earnt 10% of their benefits and so claimed 10% less then that 10% of our huge benefits bill could be used to help the really badly off.

OP posts:
Original poster
catontheroof · 07/03/2012 18:46

I am not trying to turn us into a developing country and I am not saying that the unemployed should all live in hostels.

I am saying that what we class as poverty in this country is, IMO, way above the line that should be classed as the poverty line given the state of many people's lives in the world.

I think that everyone should have a roof over their head, and enough to eat but I do not agree that everyone should be able to afford to, for example, have a washing machine or a laptop or branded goods.

My original question merely asked why people feel entitled to such a high standard of living. It is this sense of entitlement that I am questioning.

OP posts:
Agincourt · 07/03/2012 18:44

because caton is president mugabe
obv Wink

TheRealityTillyMinto · 07/03/2012 18:43

Clothes - this is idealistic:

wealthier people should be paid less and their surplus income could then be given to poorer people

as someone who earns loads is never going to work. i would just work fewer hours.

zukiecat · 07/03/2012 18:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Voidka · 07/03/2012 18:42

Why are you trying to turn the UK into a third world country caton

ClothesOfSand · 07/03/2012 18:42

How do cleaners help people in Africa? Unless it is in a hospital, it is non-essential work. People could just clean their own houses and workplaces rather than creating new non-jobs.

Original poster
catontheroof · 07/03/2012 18:41

fund the start up it hardly costs that much to become a cleaner. Most places provide the equipment,

Are you suggesting that everyone fit and on benefits has tried advertising themselves locally as a cleaner? Or dog walker? etc etc.

OP posts:
TheRealityTillyMinto · 07/03/2012 18:40

Are you seriously suggesting that those 2 million people set up their own cleaning/gardening businesses?

no - it is part of hte solution

Agincourt · 07/03/2012 18:39

not that there is anything wrong with being a secretary obviously

ClothesOfSand · 07/03/2012 18:39

RTM, I think the point is that on this thread, the OP is asking us to compare our situation to people worldwide, not to the UK average.

She is arguing that people on benefits should have a reduction in their standard of living so that people in Africa have more. Her solution is to move people into hostels (despite the fact that hostel accommodation is the most expensive form of housing) and give them food stamps. I am simply arguing that wealthier people should be paid less and their surplus income could then be given to poorer people.

Agincourt · 07/03/2012 18:39

recruitment agents are usually just glorified secretaries, lets face it

Original poster
catontheroof · 07/03/2012 18:38

i could be a cleaner - good point - why are cleaners so hard to find? Any fit person on benefits with no respionsibilities except children at school could easily work as a cleaner during school hours. They could charge the minimum wage and so claim less in benefits.

Why don't they?

OP posts:
ShirleyKnot · 07/03/2012 18:36

Seriously Tilly that's just mad. Are you seriously suggesting that those 2 million people set up their own cleaning/gardening businesses? I am jaw agape.

You do understand that not everyone in the country is capable of running their own business? Who is going to fund the start up? Who is going to employ these businesses?

TheRealityTillyMinto · 07/03/2012 18:36

DP does cardon accounting so know i consume much lessthan the average person in the UK. flying is the worst thing. it is cheap.

Original poster
catontheroof · 07/03/2012 18:33

Are people saying this support should stop no - I'm not - but I do think that it should be a lot more basic than it is. I also think that it is morally wrong for anyone not to take a job simply because it would be just as well off on benefits. I think that every individual should try to minimise their reliance on state hand outs.

I do not understand why anyone feels that they have more right to a handout than someone else, irrespective of country of origin.

OP posts:
TheRealityTillyMinto · 07/03/2012 18:32

doh - why does someone else have to create the job? they dont. i could be a cleaner, gardener, i could get qualified for childcare etc etc etc

ClothesOfSand · 07/03/2012 18:32

That was in answer to Soggy14.

ClothesOfSand · 07/03/2012 18:31

I don't think we should have a standard of living that is unsustainable and uses more than our fair share of the world's resources.

But clearly the people using the most resources are not the poor! It is utterly absurd that the OP should be on such a high income when she works in education and so is directly or indirectly paid for by the state. It is absurd she is using us so much petrol, when energy is scarce, to do a two hour commute for a job that unlike farming, medicine, some engineering and child rearing isn't even essential work.

The wealthy need to have less money and consume fewer resources.

Yes, people who can should work, but that can be voluntary work and done for the benefit of the whole community. It is a bit odd to raise it on MN, when we do all have at least one essential job - raising children.

TheRealityTillyMinto · 07/03/2012 18:31

I hope you pay for your medical treatment then tilly minto. Yes & i am happy to for the NHS.
Are people saying this support (benefits) should stop? No, change
we will ALL have to rely on ourselves and ourselves only. mainly - yes. if we are well, & not carers, we are grown ups & thats how it goes.
Not such a nice philosophy when it's services you and yours use... not interested in personla debate.

ShirleyKnot · 07/03/2012 18:28

Whatever Tilly. Pulling yourself up is all well and good.

I refer to my earlier post. Even if every one of those 463,000 vacancies were filled tomorrow that STILL leaves over two million unemployed.

Hecubasdaughter · 07/03/2012 18:28

There are actually people starving in this country.