Do we no longer live in a democracy?

But they are not the majority, and in a democracy the will of the majority is paramount. Socialist Worker Party activists do protest, but they are not the majority.

You seriously underestimate the extent of discontent with the political system. And furthermore, for everyone 1 person on the street, there are 10 or 100 who agree but who will not protest.

The UK is not 'big' on protest. In France, there is a culture of people protesting and standing up for their rights. That may be one reason why the quality of life there is so much higher than the UK.

For once, the votes of LibDem voters have counted and some of their policies are being implemented. They have joined with the Tory voters and together they are a greater number than those who voted for New Labour, so the system has delivered a voice to the majority and reflects the will of the majority of the people.

You haven't quite got it, have you, Claig.

It does not follow that, because the majority of voters voted for A and B, on a platform of X and Y, that anything a coalition of [AB] does when in power is therefore 'the will of the people'.

The Tories actually made promises that they would now enact any top-down restructuring of the NHS. Yet, that is exactly what they are now doing. The public - the vast majority - do not support the NHS bill. They promised that they wouldn't cut funding to the NHS (this was AFTER the financial crisis hit, btw), yet spending for the NHS has fallen in real terms since they came to power.

You may be satisfied with electing parties which, when elected, do as they please, with or without a mandate, but I don't. I don't call this 'democracy'.

'Sorry, but that is just rubbish. Their policies should not be being implemented, because the majority of people did not vote for them.'

Do you not believe in alliances, strength through unity? The people who voted for Blair were not a majority of the voting public. More people did not vote for Balir than did vote for him.

You know Ttosca, you make it really hard to engage in debate when you refer to a large proportion of the UK population as 'vile, sociopathic and evil' and let's not forget your favourite phrase of 'Tory scum'.

Why is it hard to engage in debate? Anyone who treats the poor and disabled the way this government has done deserves to be called all of that and more.

If you want to talk about 'vile, sociopathic and evil', then perhaps you'd like to direct your ire towards the faceless and unelected apparatchiks at the EU and what they are doing; van Rompuy, Barrosso, Rehn et al.

Who says I don't think what they're doing is evil? Did I not just mention what the Troika are doing in Greece in the post immediately proceeding?

The Greeks are now being forced to basically turn Greece in to a labour camp for the EU for the next decade or so. The IMF will have a permanent presence in Greece, telling the ruling government what it can and cannot do. Democracy has been suspended. Radio stations are being fined and shut down for speaking out against these policies.

And what is happening in Greece will happen elsewhere. If Greece defaults, which most likely it will, it will happen even quicker, and it will happen all over europe.

'People every day are trying to make bold changes to the system - these are the people on the streets, the people occupying roads, bridges, buildings, banks and stores. The people boycotting. The people striking. The people who refuse to accept that this insane system is the only thing possible.'

But they are not the majority, and in a democracy the will of the majority is paramount. Socialist Worker Party activists do protest, but they are not the majority.

But all governemnts break promises, that is as old as the sun and the Labour government did it too, just as many people knew they would do. The majority of teh people don't believe a lot of what they say and never have done. That is why politicians are regarded somewhere near estate agents and always have been. We all know they have to say things they don't believe in to toe the party line. It's not new.

'Democracy is broken because the party that came third is in Government, and got to decide the leader'

For once, the votes of LibDem voters have counted and some of their policies are being implemented. They have joined with the Tory voters and together they are a greater number than those who voted for New Labour, so the system has delivered a voice to the majority and reflects the will of the majority of the people.

You know Ttosca, you make it really hard to engage in debate when you refer to a large proportion of the UK population as 'vile, sociopathic and evil' and let's not forget your favourite phrase of 'Tory scum'.

If you want to talk about 'vile, sociopathic and evil', then perhaps you'd like to direct your ire towards the faceless and unelected apparatchiks at the EU and what they are doing; van Rompuy, Barrosso, Rehn et al.

We do need a socialist revolution, actually. The system is broken. You'd have to be blind or stupid not to see that.

Starting my own party is not the way to change the political system, and it would never have the support of the corporate media anyway.

People every day are trying to make bold changes to the system - these are the people on the streets, the people occupying roads, bridges, buildings, banks and stores. The people boycotting. The people striking. The people who refuse to accept that this insane system is the only thing possible.

So there are already millions of us who want big changes to the system. This is a ongoing struggle.

Perhaps when things get so bad, as they have in Greece, where they've basically suspended democracy, the majority will be out in the streets, taking back society from the ruling class and shaping it in the interests of the public.

Watch out for Greece, btw. You may see interesting developments there.

'We can't go on like this. Fundamental change is required'

We don't need no socialist revolution, hey leave the system alone.

You are free to set up your own party and see if people vote for your policies and agree with you. It is no good calling millions of good Tory citizens "scum" or good Tory MPs "scum" or the world's most widely read online newspaper "scum". Engage with the people, try to convince them that you have good ideas, but don't patronise them because they happen to disagree with you. Only a progressive would do that.

You could argue Lily - that one man does decide the govt, if there is one vote more for the party that has the majority.

I think that Clegg did this in concert with his party; it was courageous of Cameron to make the offer, and of Clegg to accept it.

Coalitions are messy by definition; in defence terms, in political terms, there will always be one stronger partner, be it by having a larger military, or a larger share of the vote. You only have to look at some of the govts in Europe to see that coalitions are fragile things - but in some cases they work when differences are put aside to solve massive problems.

The argument is not that we don't have democracy because the Tory scum are in power.

The argument is that the political system is broken, regardless of who is in power. When parties are elected and immediately do the exact opposite of their manifesto pledges, then democracy is broken.

When the two parties refuse to talk about important issues because they fear they will be unpopular and not get elected, then democracy is broken.

When a party takes the country to war which is both immoral and illegal, against legal advice, and against the overwhelming wishes of the majority of the public, then democracy is broken.

When the two dominant parties - the only two who have a chance to get elected based on our unproportional electoral system - are basically both neo-liberal parties, and the difference between them is which of them is the more evil, then democracy is broken.

When private interest groups - especially big business and banks - have the power to pretty much shape and overturn party policy, then democracy is broken.

People have to stop being so party political. Yes, I think the Tories are utterly vile, sociopathic and evil. And yet I know that New Labour, if elected, will still continue the broken and harmful neo-liberal policies which this country has suffered for the past 30 years which has created wealth inequality not seen since the 1930s, brought the country to an illegal war, and caused the worst financial crisis for almost a century.

We can't go on like this. Fundamental change is required.

I think it was the case that Labour and Peter Hain were worried that the small turnout at elections meant that Labour were not gaining a credible enough mandate. I think it was something like only about 25% of the population had voted for them. I think Hain even raised the idea of forcing people to vote at elections, so that non-voters would not adversely affect the mandate.

A coalition has a greater mandate from the electorate than a single party in many cases.

Coalitions are not teh problem, they represent the combined will of the people and reflect teh views of more people than those who voted for only one party.

Politicians often don't like coalitions, because it is not so easy to get their individual way, they have to respect views that represent a greater portion of the electorate. In times of crisis such as war, we often have coalition governments, because in a crisis, the time for yah boo posturing is over and the people and establishment want a government that works for the common good. We are now in the greatest financial crisis since the 1930s, so yah boo is counterproductive.

'claig, scareyteacher et al, how would you have felt if it had been a Lib/Lab coalition as it nearly was? Would that have been an example of democracy in action?'

I wouldn't have been happy, and would have cursed Cameron for not forming a minority govt; however, I accepted that people wanted Labour for 13 years however misguided I thought them, and accepted that as democracy, as I would have done under a Lib-Lab pact (and where have we heard that before?).

I think if you look at what the EU is doing, we can then start to talk about things being undemocratic with technocratic govts imposed in Greece and Italy, and the latest terms imposed upon Greece with the bail out.

'there are actually people out there that still think what they are doing is ok'

Even Labour agree that there needs to be welfare reform and NHS reform and pension reform and Miliband did not support the strikes and now Labour want tax cuts too. They agree with many of the things the Tories are doing, just not the pace with which they are doing them. It is a matter of degree, but I think that there are many of them who don't fundamentally disagree.

'Then I read posts like scareyteacher and realise that there are actually people out there that still think what they are doing is ok, reasonable and for the good of the country'

That shouldn't come as a surprise. It is in fact the majority who think that. It is the majority who read right wing newspapers and the the Tories received the most votes of any single party.

We as Tories understand that some people think Labour are good and believe what they say. We never complain that it is not democracy if Labour are in power (via coalition or not).

And Lansley understood that. He is always very polite and good-natured. He knows not everyone agrees with him and he respects that, because that is democracy. People can boo and jeer him and he understands that that is part of democracy.

I think ultimately Clegg and his party understood teh mood of teh country. They realised it would have disappointed the nation greatly if they had propped up the progressives for another 5 years. They took the temperature of teh nation, saw which way the wind was blowing and followed the will f he public. They don't agree with the Tories on many things, but they were prepared to compromise to deliver good government for teh country.

The public wanted a new broom, an end to spin, doom and gloom. They didn't believe in "only 50 days left to save the planet", they longed for 50 days and ways to save the country.

Clegg didn't decide on his own. He listened to his party. The elected representatives have to decide policy and what to do. We can't decide, all we can do is throw our vote in the pot and choose our representatives. The system doesn't run like clockwork or via computer, it is people who make teh ultimate decisions, the people we choose to vote for.

That is why it is a democracy, we can have some say in who governs. We might not agree with them, but that is too bad, because we as individuals can't have our way, it is the people as a whole who have their way.

But the 75 year old woman who told Lansley "no you wait" is a great example of democracy; someone who cares enough to have her say, even if she never gets her way.