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Politics

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Do we no longer live in a democracy?

265 replies

LilyBolero · 20/02/2012 12:30

The United Kingdom purports to be a democracy. And yet, the people of this country have no say in what happens in this country.

Look at the NHS reforms. Nobody voted for them. Cameron and Lansley KNEW that if they announced what they were planning before the election, they would be roundly beaten. And so they kept it secret. Now, when polls say that 73% of voters oppose the use of private companies in the NHS, and 62% of voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS, when they are opposed by many health organisations (Royal College of GPs, Royal College of Nurses, Royal College of Midwives, Royal College of physiotherapists, and the list goes on and on) - their solution is to shut the door on them, and to exclude them from any further discussions.

How is this democracy? Most people DON'T WANT the reforms. Most medical people DON'T WANT the reforms. Even half the government DON'T WANT the reforms. And yet, because Cameron and Lansley want them, this is what is going to happen. Cameron said 'No more top-down reorganisation of the NHS'.

Then we have Michael Gove imposing his 'ban on termtime holidays'. Is it not up to parents to decide how to bring up their children? Has he forgotten that it is not 'his' country, to rule as he wishes, but all of our country.

Even on the economy, we have no democratic say. At the last election, there were 2 distinct approaches. The Labour way, and the LibDem way was to halve the deficit over 4-5 years. The Conservative way was to cut savagely and to eliminate the deficit in 5 years. Although elections are rarely fought on one issue, I think in the extraordinary situation of 2010, it would be fair to say that the economy was the over-riding issue, and if ever an election was mono-issue, it was that one.

The first solution, of shallower cuts received about 15.4 million votes. The second solution of savage cuts received 10.7 million votes.

So we get the second option.

The Lib Dems campaigned on a ticket of 'pledging to oppose ANY rise in tution fees'. In government, they are trebling the tuition fees.

David Cameron before the election said he 'liked child benefit being a universal benefit'. He said 'I LIKE child benefit, I WOULDN'T CHANGE child benefit'.

Now he is abolishing child benefit for some in an unfair and incompetent slash at families.

They are liars, and buy votes through lies, and then do whatever the hell they want. We should be able to force an election and actually hold politicians to account. We don't live in a democracy, we live in a fascist dictatorship.

OP posts:
HoopDeDoo · 20/02/2012 13:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeppyNephrine · 20/02/2012 13:04

How exactly then did you get a governement with a minority of the votes? Did someone count wrong?

MegIet · 20/02/2012 13:00

I was just looking at the news reports of Cameron banning anyone who opposes the NHS cuts from todays meeting Shock Angry.

Probably because he'd have to hire Wembly Stadium if he wanted to get all the objectors in too.

scaryteacher · 20/02/2012 12:58

Grow up.

Look at it from the other side.

Why are the health unions (because that is what the Royal Colleges are) opposing the reforms? They are opposing them because it will not be good for them. The NHS is a bottomless pit - it is also one of two depts who have not faced cuts under this govt.The NHS is one of the three largest employers on the planet - can you explain why we need this number of personnel for what is a relatively small land mass? HM Forces have absorbed huge cuts, but just get on with it, the NHS whinges.

The UK is a a hole financially - the only reason we are keeping our AAA rating is because of the cuts. We couldn't afford to keep up with the policies under Blair, Brown and Balls of rapidly expanding the welfare state and creating a client state (which reading some of the posts on MN they have done very successfully).

Gove is right to ban holidays in term time; it affects the educational progress of children and is a complete pain in the arse for teachers...parents email wanting either two weeks work which aren't yet planned in detail, or want you to email work done and take the time to get their kids caught up when they swan back from two weeks wherever. I was paid to teach them when they are there -not when they choose not to be there (exception for kids off sick/bereavement etc).

I don't like the rise in tuition fees and will do whatever I can to avoid ds coming out of uni with debt, but it may mean that some of the non degrees that people have done in the past few years may fold, and the focus may come back to solid academic degrees. It will also hopefully mean that those who can't academically cope at uni think twice about going, as 50% of the school population aren't academically able to cope with it.

I don't like the child benefit change either, but would be losing it from 2014 anyway when ds leaves sixth form, so losing it 18 months early won't kill me. I think they need to apply the rules fairly which I don't think has been done in this case, but I suspect it's a sop to the Lib Dem numptys who don't like the populace being HRTs, whereas it is all right for them (and especially Clegg on his EU money).

They are liars...moot point. I don't think they realised the state of things until they got in and saw the books. Imagine having to claw back a vast overdraft rather quickly, otherwise the bank would be after you and everything you had; whilst also trying to pay your daily bills and maintain your standard of living. Bit of a balancing act methinks, and if we'd find it hard on a domestic basis, then what must it be like on a national one?

I would rather the Tories alone than the Coalition, but would rather the Coalition than Labour, who were liars and charlatans to the core.

Tortington · 20/02/2012 12:57

i dont think we have the govt that the majority of our citizens voted for at all.

as an aside

i really hate the Tories. i dispise them with ever fibre of my being.

but the lib dems betrayed me, the back stabbing weak willed spineless bastards, they have destroyed any chance of ever getting in again in the next 100 years.

i have nothing but contempt for the lib dems and hatred for the Tories.

KalSkirata · 20/02/2012 12:55

I agree kitchenroll. Election manifestos should be legaly binding. And they do know, the all sit on inter-party committees on all issues.
Mark Thomas's 'The People's Manifesto' is great Grin

SinicalSanta · 20/02/2012 12:54

but they didn't platform on these issues did they? So it's not accurate to say it's the voters fault

tinkertitonk · 20/02/2012 12:51

This government was voted in according to the rules. We can vote them out again. That makes this country a democracy. If you don't like the result you have to suck it up until the next election. That's the deal. There is no better deal on offer anywhere else on the planet, but there are many that are worse.

PeppyNephrine · 20/02/2012 12:47

You're confusing direct democracy with representative democracy. You have the latter but you think you should have the former.

You got the government the majority of your citizens voted for. Blame them too.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 20/02/2012 12:46

I think they need to change whatever it is that needs to be changed so that governments are held to what they say during elections. I know that the two parties we have in at the moment would both have to compromise, but that doesn't explain what is happening at the moment.

They use the excuse that they didn't know how bad the situation was until they came into government, and thats why they need to be so drastic with the cuts, but they should know. Why don't they know?

And why can't we force them to stand by their own words that got them elected intel first place?

MildlyNarkyPuffin · 20/02/2012 12:46

Unfortunately this is democracy.

All the people who voted Conservative are responsible for this. All the people who voted Lib Dem are responsible for this.

RaPaPaPumPumBootyMum · 20/02/2012 12:45

But it's very rare surely that there are MPs in the Tory Party who grew up on a council estate?

If there are, I haven't heard of them but am happy to be corrected.

They seem to be overwhelmingly wealthy and privately educated. Which is not a bad thing in itself but just seems worrying that so many in our ruling party are of this ilk.

Do they even understand the issues for the great unwashed? Grin

HoopDeDoo · 20/02/2012 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LilyBolero · 20/02/2012 12:40

In the past, definitely. Alan Johnson grew up on a council estate, brought up by his sister.

Now? No Chance.

OP posts:
KalSkirata · 20/02/2012 12:37

when was it ever a democracy? Could a cild on a council estate make it anymore to Cabinet? I doubt it.

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