Changes to child benefit -implementation

I wrote to them asking most of these questions and got a wooly all in it together letter back, mentioning chnages were going to be made to the legislation. Haven't seen any draft bills so far.
Dh does a tax return to reclaim mileage, so we would be easily found via a question on the tax return. Thank god he knows I get it. Prev dh certainly didn't due to his drinking and gambling. (Very short marriage for obv reasons)
What about other people tho - how do you know to adjust a tax code to claw back cb without asking that question? Cue loads of letters going out to h r empoyees saying can you just ask your dh\dw if they get cb? What a joke. And if you are self employed?

I used to work in Local Govt Finance, and if from my section (CTAX) we wanted some info about a CT payer and could only get it from HB, we had to go and physically ask for the file to be pulled and if we could have the info, as under Data Protection we had no right to it.

It's probably the same for HMRC.

"Shouldn't it all just be automatic.."

It should but it's not. It's all handled by HMRC and they should be able to cross-reference but they don't. I fill in an annual self-assessment return without fail and was always annoyed that, a few months later, I would get a form from the Tax Credit people asking me to give them the same information all over again. When they finally reform the tax system to something simpler (flat rat tax for example) I'd hope they found a way to stop this kind of duplication

Even if we lose CB I'm covered on the NI front, as there is an arrangement in place for trailing Forces spouses overseas to get their NI credits wehn their spouse changes appointment. It does work, as I've had one lot already credited, and will sort the next lot out in 2013.

I could also change to Belgian cb I think, so I might do that if we can't have the UK one any more.

I'm left wondering if, when they made the headline announcement, they had even stopped to think about the NI credit beforehand. There really hasn't been anything satisfactory said about this.

There should in theory be Chinese Walls up between the different departments with regards to Data Protection, so it is not as easy as it sounds, especially given that non working spouses of HRTs pay no tax, how would they link them?

Totally agree about the transferable allowances.

It may be that the climb down is that you are taxed on your cb at source, so in my case, they'd have to pay me the tax back the following year as I earn under the threshold if I mark exams.

That last sentence was what pissed me off. Given the amount of tax dh pays, HE is paying for the CB not only for us, but for others as well, unless George Osborne thinks that somehow HRTs aren't paying tax.

Kanga - under the Data Protection Act, which also has to be involved here, how can they cross reference NINOs, if there is no claim other than for CB?

Iirc, if you are HRT under £100k with straightforward PAYE, you are not required to complete an ITR. We only do them because we have income from lettings.

Given that HMRC don't cross check earnings via tax paid and tax credits, I don't see how they'll be sure to catch all HR households and stop CB.

Many HR taxpayers don't have to complete a self assessment form so it'll be more paperwork.

Madness. They should have left well alone.

'It would be interesting to see what happened if the HRT's said "I don't know, and have no legal right to be informed" on their tax form when asked if anyone in their household were claiming'

That's what I'm going to do when asked the question - or alternatively - do you have an HRT in your household, I will say that I don't know....

Dh doesn't receive the cb, I do, so how can they make him pay for what is a benefit to me, when I don't work because we are posted overseas on govt service?

"So who exactly would have committed fraud?"

When declaring income or unearned income for tax the responsibility is on the person paying the tax to make an honest declaration within reason. If you're allocated a company car and don't declare it because you think your payroll department told HMRC it's not your fault but you should expect a bill for back payments when they find out. Similarly, if one parent lies about claiming CB and the HRT payer doesn't declare themselves as a parent, the HRT payer will be held responsible.

Amalgamating with tax credits is only my suggestion. Up until last year, households with an income of up to £50k-ish could claim CTCs. It involved one annual declaration and not even that if the details hadn't changed. It wouldn't be unreasonable to send all families a combined Tax Credit/Child Benefit form, ask for the household income to be declared per person rather than as a combined figure, and take it from there.

Sounds like they're treating CB as a kind of taxable allowance in that case. I suppose another box on the self-assessment form isn't the end of the world but not everyone completes a self-assessment, of course. So it will have to be docked from the tax-code rather in the way a company car is - and that relies on individuals advising HMRC that they are parents which could be the weak link.

from Institue for Fiscal Studies: "The Government intends to claw back the amount of child benefit paid to a family from higher-rate taxpayers through the income tax system. Higher-rate taxpayers who receive child benefit, or whose partner receives child benefit, will have to make additional payments through income tax self-assessment equal to the amount of child benefit they receive".

I've not seen anything to contradict this.

Nor anything definitive on the NI credit.

Very badly done, really. It doesn't show administrative competence, which means that one cannot assume anything is being done competently at present,

I've not seen any announcements, sorry. Purely my own speculation. :) It all depends on whether HMRC would prefer to deal with it via everyone's tax codes and a system of claw-backs or whether they would staple the CB admin to the Tax Credit calculations. If HMRC are going to stay in the business of handing out cash payments it seems to make more sense to deal with CB the way they deal with Tax Credits than to use the PAYE system which is already very complicated and much more geared up for collection.

CES - good! If not being clawed back from the HRT (as early announcements said it would be), then have they actually announced their new thinking on this (and the NI element?). Grateful for any links (as have clearly missed this change totally!)

I realise there were historic reasons why CB always went to the mother. These days, women can be a lot more independent than they were when it was introduced, even if some choose not to be. There are still far too many men that behave unreasonably towards women and children and it's obviously wrong. I'm sure there is a way to make sure that women still receive the payment where necessary, but it doesn't seem right that we design a benefits system around a badly-behaved minority.

I think the difference with tax credits is that that replaced a system which was always based on earnings and defined through the taxation of one party - the married couples allowance. The payment of tax allowances/credits has always been related to earnings. The payment of child benefit never has been and indeed was intended as a balancing tool to support families in the face of the sometimes unreasonable behaviour of the main wage earner.

It's unlikely to be administered via a tax form. I would have thought the CB form would ask applicants whether they were single or in a couple and then each to declare their income, separately signed off if necessary. If the applicant says 'couple' and there is an income missing, they'd investigate.

If this were on joint household income, it wouldn't attack the principle of independent taxation (as the adults in the household would be claiming together). As this stands, it does: for it requires one person to declare another's position without their consent.

It would be interesting to see what happened if the HRT's said "I don't know, and have no legal right to be informed" on their tax form when asked if anyone in their household were claiming.

Ditto to Northernlurker. If you receive tax credits now and your partner's income goes up or down then the amount you receive will be affected. You could call that system 'anti women' as well but it would work the same way if the man claimed the credits and the woman was the main wage earner.