Amazon.co.uk pay ZERO tax in the UK. Why are people more annoyed about the bloke down the road maybe getting a benefit that he shouldn't than that. I don't understand.

Yes, Politics is a much better place for it. Wasn't it you Pagwatch Which who asked for all the benefits threads to be in one place?

Shame that an interesting topic had to be compared to the well-trod subject of people moaning about others getting benefits.

As others have said, Amazon aren't doing anything illegal and 'based in the UK' has different meanings in law. A physical base does not mean they are legally based here.

I don't know why people complain about benefits and not about this. I can assume though it's because (a) they know the Amazon situation is legal whereas they are unsure - whether justifiably or not - that their neighbour is entitled to their blue badge; (b) it is easier to relate to things that are in their own yard and are only a few steps removed from their own situation; or (c) they don't know about it in the first place, as it is not widely known.

Yep, Chicken.

This is the UK:

On welfare for its people: Cut! cut! cut! -starving/freezing/homeless? -"But think of the deficit! Won't somebody think of the deficit!"

On taxing the rich to clear the deficit: " lovely chap, we had lunch last thurday. Dont worry about that pesky tax, and help yourself to our lovely services and our well educated people. Wages? Dont worry about that, in fact we'll pay YOU.

WTF?

as others have said, just because it's got a .uk address doesn't mean it's a "UK" company. Muchlike MN having .com at the end doesn't mean MN has to pay tax to the US government (I bet they're super relieved about that). I have had stuff from Amazon shipped from Luxembourg, so it's not just their registered HQ but they do have warehouses there, which would make sense that they sell products in France, Germany, etc. as well as the UK.

Ryanair apparently tried to convince the French government that as an Irish company their employees didn't have to pay French income tax. The French government cancelled their slots from at least one of their airports and told them to get knotted.

Addicted to Tax Havens - nice little read.

China isn't thriving.

HMRC had 25% of its staff cut. Which I think shows how much of a shit the governments we employ give about bringing money into public coffers.

It's an interesting question but perhaps the wrong one. Another tangent of the country wide blamestorming that has been going on this week (sorry Pag).

You don't assume Mumsnet is based internationally because they have a .com address do you?

Taxation in this country is a vast sprawling beast which has been left to fester and which is enforced by people who I would not trust to organise a birthday cake for Mr Kipling frankly. Enforcement is also stymied by the pressure of legal costs, understaffing and brain drain at the heart of revenue protection, it's not a job for life anymore and people don't care too much about it.

Commercial success within a country is generally helpful to that country. Look at China. Lots of stuff being produced and shipped over here. There's not a heck of a lot of tax paid there either as I understand it. Yet they are thriving on it. It's just a different model of collection.

Perhaps the solution is more regulation ---- oh wait, we can't cope with the regulation we DO have and businesses complain they cannot operate within the rules in any case.

I was an FD, I've sat up for hours trying to understand - with the help of accountants, what I need to pay, why and how? But quite honestly there are so many rules that without paying someone a lot you will not get away with evasion or avoidance. But if you are paying £5m in tax and can hire a tax avoidance specialist for £1m, most people will do it. People don't get and stay rich by being dumb.

Ethically you can justify it - I create 100 jobs, ergo I'm entitled to hire one more person to drive down my tax costs.

Well luckily the government aren't the moral police, yellowraincoat!

Pag "I am sure there are points for and against. I am just exasperated that the question of whether a bloke should be using a car with a blue badge or whether a woman qualifies for dal seems to crop up on here all the time. But rarely does wholesale tax avoidance gets mentioned.
I know which one irritates me more. I just wonder why we begrudge our beighbour but get [shrug] about the bigger fish to fry.
Perhaps local stuff just seems more within our control/remit."

I heard that interview this morning, too, Pag and was

Maybe, as other posters have suggested upthread, what is within our control/remit is to think very carefully about how much we shop on Amazon. I admit to having a vested interest as I work for a retailer and am watching the high street having its lifeblood sucked out by companies like Amazon -whilst we are still paying exhorbitant rents, rates and taxes, and are having to cut employees' hours because you can sit on your arse it's cheaper online.

yellowraincoat - I think people can spend their money better than governments can a lot of the time I don't think that is a particularly narrow view. The OP posed a narrow question re a specific comparison and I answered in kind

It's legal to cheat on your wife as well, doesn't mean it's ok.

I agree with LondonOne. Wholeheartedly.

It's legal. They also employ shedloads of people who pay income tax. Without Amazon, those people might be unemployed.

Thank you Amazon, don't go elsewhere and make us pay more for goods.

In fact, do we even still make mugs? Royal doulton etc are they still going?

God, Londonone, you really see things from a narrow viewpoint, don't you?

I don't care because I don't blame anyone for trying to avoid tax. The government do a crap job of spending money so I sure don't want them to have more. If amazon paid more tax, I would pay more for my goods which I don't want to to. If less was paid out in benefits the govt could lower taxes, I could pay less tax and I would like that. THat is why I care about one and not the other!

Go on Amazon and order a book about Economics

Maybe you should read one, and see what happens to a stifled economy.

Amazon related business will be creating employment - not much of it, as later this year a further 2 million workers will be made available, funded entirely by taxpayers. Not only that, but companies get around £5k of public funds as a bonus for taking on free staff.

Sure, it's cost-effective for the corporations. They save on employment costs and get extra income We're pretty much paying them to syphon funds out of the UK at a rate of knots already.

WineOhWhy - Not sure the UK has that many companies left! Our utility companies are based in Germany, France, and .. Malaysia (!??). Our chocolate is made by an american plastic cheese company.
Even our state services are being hacked off to god knows who.

The UK seem to be the biggest mug on the block. thanks Cameron!

I was just mulling over a new Buy British campaign - but we can't, coz we don't make anything any more :(

WineOhWhy, I have to fill in a US tax form if I sell anything to residents there. I've assumed I will be taxed on earnings in the US - is that not the case?

This is business, if you run a business you make the most efficient choices for it.

Amazon related business will be creating employment, collecting VAT which at 20% is considerable.

Go on Amazon and order a book about Economics

Jenai- I think it was germany (because we wanted a domain ending in co.de .... i.e. 'code') and you have to be a german registered company to have that domain, very definitely (we aren't).
This was through domain name registration service (poss 123, not sure now)

I don't think people do begrudge their neighbours while ignoring bigger issues. It's just that people will talk about, and be concerned about things that they can actually see happening in their every day lives.

Most of us don't know a huge amount about corporate tax loopholes, so with less knowledge on OT there is less to discuss. That doesn't mean people care about one subject more or less than the other though.

However, I like Amazon because they seel me stuff cheaper than their competitors. I don't really care how they do that as long as its legal, and it is legal, so I'm happy to let them get on with running their business the most profitable way they know how.