Does anyone elsee agree with the benefit cuts?

OP - I agree with SOME of the benefit changes, but I am not surprised you are getting flamed here for your views. On MNs because some people who are disabled/unemployed, etc struggle/do everything they can to find a job/struggle to pay basic bills, it means that everyone on benefits is like this.

My brother works very part time doing a self employed business. Both him and my SIL are quite upfront that there is no point them working more hours as theyw on't be better off because of the benefits they would lose. The benefit changes will mean that they will have to work more hours. And I think this is right.

PeahenTailFeathers we shall do both
Dole lights and tax avoiders are both the same to me both want money for old rope

Both plead they can't do with out money that belongs to the tax payer and both don't know a hard days graft

Any who the situation now stand YOU will get a bloody job or you will starve and I for one am glad my tax won't be going on people who want to have children who they can't support and sit and watch jermery kyle

OP, try spending less effort on supporting benefit cuts and more effort opposing tax evasion, property tax fraud and the scrapping of the 50p tax rate for high earners. Clamping down on these would benefit the economy far more than taking money from the poorest.

mrsruffalo do you live on the moon?

Reward the workers? Yes, let's do that. I'd love a reward. Fuck everyone else. Can I have my pay rise now? The one that's been frozen? Can you give everyone a job? Then everyone could have a reward. While we're at it shall we stop all wars and famine? That'd be brilliant.

Nah not really, was just replying to your last post to me, it seemed you had DLA and ESA mixed up.

Are you clearer on the differences between them now? ie one of them is an out of work benefit and one isnt

One of them is being cut by 20%.....etc etc its all in my last reply to you.

Sorry Amber. Did you ask me a question?

I have a magic money tree in my back garden.

My goat is tethered to it.

I got a job off the magic job tree and I get all my money off the magic money tree, WibblyBibble.

I'll PM you the details if you want, since you're obviously too bone idle to get off your microbiologising arse.

It's a bit funny how all the tories on these wank threads go on about lefties believing in a 'magic money tree' for the government to get money on (demonstrating their obvious lack of understanding of economics by thinking of money as a fixed resource rather than an exchange token but never mind that), but don't see anything ironic about telling people to get jobs off the 'magic jobs tree' when clearly there are no jobs (have applied for hundreds over the last 6 months and I am a qualified microbiologist so there's hardly jobs just washing around for anyone if I can't get one ffs).

Why do you think an individual unemployed person has more power to change reality than an entire government?

Hey niceguy!

No reply for me?! [I appreciate you may well be busy]

And I can attest to that, as if I was given some financial help to retrain in something that wasn't barred to me by law, then in the end, the state would reap far more money from me in return, through increased tax revenues! OK, the money isn't there, but that is what is STOPPING these people fromimproving their situation. They can't pay for course fees if they can't pay for food!

Yes, they SHOULD be doing something to better themselves. If they have the capability to. NOT everyone is born with the same IQ. And there is NO funding available for help with course costs, and if you can't meet your BASIC NEEDS, then I'm quite sure that studying is much further down the list than keeping a roof over your head, or gas and electric on the meter, or EATING.

I think you'll find that the reason they DON'T better themselves is because they CAN'T!

Olympic good for us for who I wont be going in to London at all its going to eb chaos and note they not improving faclites for disabled people either around London , same with the 30 milion to save 30 mins ona train journey

have to say it makes me angry when people say that the olympics will be good for us all.
yes some people will benefit from it, but it won't be the hardest hit.
they won't be getting a job, a ticket or any benefit. just paying through tax or cuts to other things.

Oh and Hunty, I think you are getting a bit carried away with the whole eugenics thing. Noone's suggesting that at all.

All I'm arguing for is an affordable benefits system which is sorely needed. The NMW is there merely as a political tool. It serves no practical purpose as you clearly understand every family is different so it's impossible to set a single wage for everyone.

Instead it's really up to everyone who can to make their own way in life. If the job they are doing isn't enough to support their family then they should be doing something to improve matters. I'm on a good salary, despite that with the crunch, no payrises for four years and ever increasing tax/bills, we've found our standard of living dropping. So I'm studying at the moment to hopefully enable me to earn more. I do this as well as hold down a full time job and dad to three kids. It's up to me to improve my family's situation, not the state.

And just to be clear, I'm talking about abled bodied people such as myself. Clearly those with special needs need to be treated more sympathetically.

As usual, the conservatives come up with a 1001 reasons why change is impossible and the status quo is the only viable option. How sad.

Actually Ttosca I think you'll find that most conservative/supports of benefit caps are arguing in favour of change and that the status quo is NOT a viable option. It's ultra left wingers such as yourself who are arguing for the plainly unaffordable status quo.

It doesn't surprise me though that as usual you've completely missed the point.

that point in that figure should have been a comma: £37,939.20.

How would the TOP 10% of earners be happy with earning just 3.2 times what the lowest earners get? That would be just £15,040 before tax. There would be an OUTCRY. Yet it would STILL be 3.2 times what the lowest 10% of earners earnt.

If we even took a FULL-TIME NMW job (which is MORE than the bottom 10% earn, by quite some way), 3.2 times that would be £37.939.20. So, by that standard, the top 10% of earners should be paid roughly £38k.

I think Japan has it a lot MORE right than we do...

(I remembered where I had read THAT one!)

the top 10% of earners now earn 3.2 times what the bottom 10% make. Apply that to the UK. The bottom 10% of earners make 12 TIMES less than the top 10% in the UK. The figure of 3.2 times would be MUCH better!

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/dec/05/income-inequality-growing-faster-uk

Not sure about Japan

"According to an article published back in 2006 by USA Today, the OECD reported that ?income inequality rose twice as fast in Japan as in other rich countries between the mid ?80s and 2000″; that ?the gap between rich and poor in Japan is wider than the OECD average? and ?found that the top 10% of Japanese male wage earners now earn 3.2 times what the bottom 10% make.? Egalitarian? Hardly.
The fact of the matter is, Japan is in the exact same boat the United States has been in since the Reagan administration: wealth has been siphoned up to the highest levels of society, which has in turn had a negative impact on the economies of both superpowers."

The millions spent on the Olympics etc (agree HS2 is wrong, but not for these reasons) will be spent on people - jobs for workers, builders, material and equipment suppliers - more jobs, more money for all.

Not sure how you intend to fund your Utopia - again, back to the 70's, you give everyone a pay rise (additional benefits etc) then things get more expensive, no one is better off - only way to do that is grow the whole economy. From here, less than 500,000 people earn more than £100k per year. Not enough there to help.

Not always great at linking sources, I do admit. It's usually because I read a report, the figure sticks in my head, then weeks later come across a thread. I do TRY to go back and find the links when I have time, but I sometimes forget if the thread drops off my active convos!

How can it be unrealistic to expect that the cuts will be thought through fully, and the impact on the people affected fully discussed, and NOT leaving anyone in poverty? I truly believe that in 5 years time, we will have some parts of the UK that have Victorian levels of poverty in some families. That is just plain WRONG in a developed country in the 21st Century. Especially when some people earn millions / practice tax avoidance / own more homes than they NEED, while others in the country will not have even their BASIC NEEDS met.

IMO, it is just GREED on the part of the people at the 'top' of the pile that leaves others in poverty. While we may not YET have widespread levels of poverty like there was in the Victorian era, I'll bet that's changed in 5 years time. And that's OK? With ANYONE? There WILL be people who lose their homes and are unable to get another. There WILL be people unable to EAT if they want to keep a roof over their heads. There WILL be greater strain placed on the NHS by people suffering from diseases of malnutrition. There are already people that have had to rely on food banks to survive due to cuts in disability benefits - and have killed themselves due to the grinding, abject poverty they found themselves in. Is that REALLY what people think is OK? When we are wasting millions on the Olympics, and HS2, and the probable new London airport? It's NOT that there isn't enough money there - it's that it is being spent on the WRONG things. Things that only benefit the people at the TOP of the pile, NOT the people down the bottom.

OK, I am no economist, and I have never said that I am - but I just believe that if everybody had enough to survive, and anything that was earnt above that was taxed to provide for that, then no-one would go hungry, no-one would need to be homeless, and anyone that went out to work and earnt money would be better off than those that didn't, albeit not by as much as some are! And there wouldn't be the massive disparity between the CEO of a company's wages and the wages of his office cleaner. It works in Japan.

Don't disagree Hunty and have a lot of sympathy.- figures are from a report linked in my last post but one. I am not necessarily agreeing with all the cuts, but genuinely believe that the entire benefit system needs reform. I also think we need to reduce govt spending as a % of GDP. It is now 46% (here), up from 38% in 1997 when the Labour party got into power. This has all been funded by borrowing and is unsustainable.
I accept that some view additional tax as the answer, but remember back to the late 70's, when top tax rates were 98% (over 100% on some unearned income). this was not a great time for the country and we had to borrow from the IMF in 1976 and inflation went up to 28%.
Unfortunately money has become more mobile since then and will move offshore if the govt make the tax adviser fees worthwhile.
Therefore I would like some reform ideas from people who disagree with the current govt, but I have not seen anything realistic, just stop what they are doing.
Also like to keep proper statistics used, rather than only quoting for my benefit, hence try to link sources.

Behind every one of these statistics lie REAL PEOPLE with real emotions and thoughts and feelings

I think lots of people forget this, or just dont think of it like that.

Behind every one of these statistics lie REAL PEOPLE with real emotions and thoughts and feelings.