Effects of the cuts - NUS: Students turning to prostitution to fund studies

breadandbutterfly · 2011-12-14T09:43:19+00:00

Horrifying - and totally predictable. [[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16157522]]

EdithWeston · 15/12/2011 16:12

"Have they quantified and identified it" - no; or at least not according to the NUS as quoted above.

There is no evidence for an increase in prostitution amongst students. Indeed there may also be an absence of baseline data, so it would also be impossible to demonstrate an increase, especially as reporting from earlier years and other countries shows this is not a phenomenon linked to the timings of the change of administration or the roll put of any particular policy.

And I'd like to ask again, how do male students (equally impoverished) cope? Unless the NUS is equally concerned about a rise in dubious employment amongst men, then it does seem that alternatives exist.

claig · 15/12/2011 14:22

Agree SinicalSanta, for the individuals involved it has nothing to do with politics.

'So why is it being reported?'
That is the key question. What do they want done about it? What are they going to do about it? What are they doing to prevent it happening?
Have they quantified and identified who this is hapopening to and are they helping them or is it left as anecdotal evidence? What measures are being taken to prevent it?

Or is it about trying to reverse cuts and fee increases? Is it political?

SinicalSanta · 15/12/2011 12:03

The cuts increase poverty, poverty increases the number of people who are willing to consider things they wouldn't ordinarily want.
That's not news, or in any way controversial.

So why is it being reported? Taking the point about political points being made, but for the individuals involved it's unlikely to be about political point scoring.

claig · 15/12/2011 10:02

Cogito, that was aimed at me, because I questioned the numbers and the 'anecdotal' evidence. As Laurie and others have said, it has always gone on, but I think blaming it on the 'cuts' is political and I don't believe that the cuts are luring young women into the sex trade, as breadandbutterfly believes.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 15/12/2011 09:49

"Clearly you're not bothered at the thought of young women getting lured into the sex trade"

Of course I'm bothered. Just happen to think blaming 'the cuts' is a bit lazy.

LaurieFairyCake · 15/12/2011 08:41

Sure, the woman they've used as an example is poor but I knew young women who sold blowjobs for a fiver when I was at Uni in 1989 - I worked in the student union and there were quite a few who came in to the sexual health clinic and I know at least one who properly prostituted herself for money to fund her living.

That's more than than 20 years ago, I am not in any way surprised it's still happening.

Original poster

breadandbutterfly · 15/12/2011 08:35

Not quite sure how you expect to get quantitative data on this - I doubt figures on numbers of students in sex trade have ever definititively been collected, as understably this is a dark secret to most of those students who do do this and not something they are going to shout about. That still doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that numbers are not going to rise at a time of rising fees for students combined with cutting of grants such as EMA and record youth unemployment.

Clearly you're not bothered at the thought of young women getting lured into the sex trade. I am. Glad you sleep easy every night convinced that all the shit that happens is the victim's own fault and that therefore everything is just fine and dandy. Sadly, this stuff bothers me. If you just don't care, why bother posting at all?

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 15/12/2011 07:28

"that doesn't mean it doesn't happen though"

No-one's saying it doesn't happen. I'm sure there are also students who are dealing a few drugs or doing a bit of shoplifting and will also say 'I had no choice'. It's just an excuse.

claig · 14/12/2011 21:42

The story gets stranger

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073944/Increasing-number-students-turning-sex-industry-pay-way-university-NUS-warns.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

The Mail, like the BBC, says that the NUS claims this. It mentions Estelle Hart, the NUS national women's officer.

But at the end of the arrticle it says

"A spokesman for the NUS said although they did not have any quantitative evidence, they backed Ms Hart's comments.

'Anecdotally we are seeing a lot more of this and when you combine this with other reports there does seem to be an increase (in students working in the sex industry),' he said.

'We don't have any quantitative basis to back it up but we are confident to say this is an increasing problem.

'This hasn't originated from us but we are very confident standing by what Estelle said to 5 Live.'"

If the Mail is correct, then this quote seems to be the key

'We don't have any quantitative basis to back it up'

meditrina · 14/12/2011 21:33

Male students are equally impoverished.

What do they do for additional income?

I'm somewhat aghast at further normalisation of the sex trade, but I remember this story from at least a couple of occasions in the past; what it the enduring appeal of prostitution to better educated young women?

Original poster

breadandbutterfly · 14/12/2011 21:29

That was from this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16175309

OP posts:

Original poster

breadandbutterfly · 14/12/2011 21:28

Well, in response both to that and to claig's call for figures, how about this:

"The unemployment rate among 16 to 24-year-olds rose to 22% in the three months to October, up from 20.8% three months earlier.

Although this was the highest rate since formal records began in 1992, the ONS said it estimated that the rate had been higher in the mid-80s. "

The fact that youth unemployment is at record highs (excepting possibly the mid-80s which whatdoiknowanyway said was also hard) at the same time as fees have risen means, logically that students are going to need more money just at the time when it is harder to earn it legitimately. I'm sure part-time legitimate work is available - but probably not equally in all parts of the country. The faxt that poster x's dd got a job does not mean every other female students is guaranteed to be so fortunate. hence, the likelihood of larger numbers turning to supposedly 'easy' money in the sex trade.

It's not rocket science. Yes, you can blame the girls for being naive - that doesn't mean it doesn't happen though.

OP posts:

whatdoiknowanyway · 14/12/2011 14:17

OP - i think you misread my post. I was not 'preening' that I was thrifty in 1985. I made no mention of my financial position at all.

What I said was that this type of story was around in the early/mid 80s - even though people had grants. Then the newspaper slant was the high cost of living and the fact that the grant wasn't enough. Oh and the grant was means tested so if your parents had money (mine didn't) you didnt get a grant and were dependent upon them. If they refused to pay then there were no low cost loans available so people did find themselves in financial difficulties.

I wasn't comparing the financial position in the 80s to the current position. I was simply pointing out that students on the game to make ends meet has been a shock/horror story for decades.

niceguy2 · 14/12/2011 14:17

I read this and thought like Cogito. The girl they've used as an example is poor.

So she had the opportunity to do jobs but didn't want to because of "unsocialable hours"? Since when did jobs have to be sociable hours? I know mine weren't when I was at uni.

And she decided to escort yet at the same time hadn't looked into all her options with regards to assistance. So how can she say she was so desperate that she had no other choice?

"It just sounded more desirable. I couldn't see any other option."

So the bottom line is that it sounded easier and she didn't really look at alternatives and didn't want a job with unsociable hours.

Well my sympathy is lacking on this one.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 14/12/2011 13:01

"you re buying into the myth "

I'm not buying into anything. I'm reading the article as I was told to do... The girl had other choices.

HedleyLamarr · 14/12/2011 12:24

"I had a friend who'd been trying to get me to join his escort agency since I was 16. He was telling me stories about how much I could earn, how the hours would fit around me, that I could control who I saw, when I saw them and how often."

So her "friend" pimped her out. Some friend.

bobthebuddha · 14/12/2011 12:19

'Effects of the cuts'? Oh come on...the girl cited in the story said she'd been pestered by a friend since she was 16, the story recycles figures from another story from March 2010 (linked to in the story itself & correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the EMA had been cut at that point) and there are no figures at all proving a causal link to 'the cuts'.

Was the EMA around £10-30 a week? A bar job's going to give you that kind of money. It's what I did and it's what my niece does now.

claig · 14/12/2011 12:13

Yes stories like these are trying to shape opinion and have a political subtext which is against cuts and higher fees. That is why the BBC should ask questions about figures before posting in case breadandbutterfly gets the idea

"Horrifying - and totally predictable."

My guess is that that was the reaction that was intended, and that is why it sometimes pays to be cynical, SinicalSanta.

SinicalSanta · 14/12/2011 12:09

well that's a bias-in-media issue really.
not that it's not true, and cuts hve no effect whatsoever, except on the lazy and workshy.

claig · 14/12/2011 12:05

Stories like these are bread and butter to opponents of the government and breadandbutterfly and the BBC post them and there are no figures given.

SinicalSanta · 14/12/2011 12:02

It's not mutually exclusive you know.

It may be the truth and it may ALSO be politically motivated to highlight it.

SinicalSanta · 14/12/2011 12:01

they're the ones doing the medical testing, maybe?

who knows or cares? it's just people scrabbling around doing dirty dangerous or disgusting work because - hey -someone has to, and they're nobody I know. Anyway it's their choice because they're too fussy and up themselves to do a few hours behind a till or a bar. Well, not my kids, but other ones from certain backgrounds.

claig · 14/12/2011 11:52

Exactly, aren't the male students just as hard up for money, hasn't their EMA also been cut?

It's spin and because the BBC report it, lots of people fall for it.

MrPants · 14/12/2011 11:49

Can I ask a genuine question please? If 20% of lap dancers are students - the overwhelming majority of whom will be female - and there are countless student prostitutes etc. - again, I imagine that the vast majority would be female - what avenues are available for male students who run out of money, are these legal, are they moral (whatever that might mean) and, if they are legal, why aren't these females doing that instead of walking the streets?

purits · 14/12/2011 11:44

Well said, claig. The BBC are guilty sometimes of merely passing on press releases and calling it 'news'. Monday mornings are the worst for mindless reproduction of someone else's agenda.