Too Many Cuts...come join the #Frothers and have your say

Hunty, I wouldn't be able to work that calculation out at all, you most definatly are not fick! do you hear me woman! do your hampster cage, and if you have time do the calculation, then get some sleep!

night x

thank you for doing this

I'm just using figures from the SE - these calculations might take me all week, with all the different permutations!!

I will just do one more tonight, as I have a hamster cage to clean.

I'll try to get as many done as I can tomorrow though.

Universal Credit spelt out

A Lone Parent, with two children aged 2yo and 3yo, who works for 20 Hours a week, over 3 days, for NMW (£6.08/hr). The Lone parent in this scenario does not have to pay Tax or NI as her earnings are on the threshold of £121.60/wk.

If we assume this Lone Parent is living in the SE, and is paying rent on a 2-bed HA house of £120/wk, and her Nursery fees are £50 a day per child. However, this Lone Parent is allowed to use 3 of her Nursery vouchers for the 3yo towards the cost of the nursery place ? which will take off £15 a day. But they only get the vouchers for 38 weeks each year. The total childcare fees are £1,157.50pcm.

Under the current Tax Credits system, the Lone parent would get:

CTC - £258.33
WTC - £322.50
ChB - £146.03
HB - £520.00
WTC childcare element - £810.25
Earnings - £526.93

A total of £2,584.04

Under the new Universal Credit system, the Lone parent would get:

Extra childcare vouchers for the 2yo to have £15 off a day.

Earnings - £526.93
UC personal allowance - £292.50
UC 2 dependent children - £425.84
UC Housing - £520.00
UC Childcare - £710.50

Maximum earnings disregard for a Lone parent with two children will be £750.00 p/cm. For any earnings over the earnings disregard, 65p in every £1 will be deducted from the UC. Also, if there are housing costs included in the UC, the maximum earnings disregard will be reduced by 1.5 times whatever those housing costs are. The minimum earnings disregard for a Lone parent with two children is £253.33 p/cm. The lone Parent will get whichever disregard is higher ? the one after housing costs, or the minimum, as the disregard will not go below the minimum for that circumstance.

Now it gets complicated...1.5 times the housing is £780.00. Which is greater than the maximum earnings disregard of £750.00. So this Lone Parent gets the minimum earnings disregard of £253.33.

£526.93 (earnings) - £253.33 (min disregard) = £273.60

£273.60 / 100 = 2.736 x 65 = £177.84

So 65% of her earnings OVER her earnings disregard is £177.84. That is how much her UC will be reduced by.

Maximum UC is £1,948.84. Which is still under the £2,166.67 p/cm UC cap.
Less 65% of the earnings OVER the disregard leaves £1,771.00.

Total UC - £1,771.00

PLUS earnings - £2,297.93

Which will leave that Lone Parent getting £2,584.04 - £2,297.93 = £286.11 LESS p/cm Under UC than TC?s.

I had forgotten about the childcare vouchers for 2yo's that people on UC will get. Which actually leaves this Lone Parent WORSE off than if she hadn't got those vouchers. It's to do with the percentage thing for the child element. 70% of £100 is more than 70% of £50 - so if the vouchers cut down the childcare costs overall, they also cut down what 70% of the childcare costs are.

Fuck this is complex. And they reckon this system is LESS complex than TC's? MY ARSE!

That would be because there ISN'T a problem with it...Fuuuuuuuuck. I have double and triple checked the calculations. How does THAT work then? £882.23 worse off for the Lone parent with ONE dc in Nursery, yet 'only' £186.36 worse off for the Lone parent with TWO dc in Nursery??

I'm going to double check the figures on the second one now...Surely one of them HAS to be wrong?

Hunty is the CTC missing from the uc calculations?

Might be the childcare? Can't SEE a problem with the first calculation?

Universal Credit spelt out

A Lone Parent, with two children aged 2yo and 3yo, who works for 20 Hours a week, over 3 days, for NMW (£6.08/hr). The Lone parent in this scenario does not have to pay Tax or NI as her earnings are on the threshold of £121.60/wk.

If we assume this Lone Parent is living in the SE, and is paying rent on a 2-bed HA house of £120/wk, and her Nursery fees are £50 a day per child. However, this Lone Parent is allowed to use 3 of her Nursery vouchers for the 3yo towards the cost of the nursery place ? which will take off £15 a day. But they only get the vouchers for 38 weeks each year. The total childcare fees are £1,157.50pcm.

Under the current Tax Credits system, the Lone parent would get:

CTC - £258.33
WTC - £322.50
ChB - £146.03
HB - £520.00
WTC childcare element - £810.25
Earnings - £526.93

A total of £2,584.04

Under the new Universal Credit system, the Lone parent would get:

Earnings - £526.93
UC personal allowance - £292.50
UC 2 dependent children - £425.84
UC Housing - £520.00
UC Childcare - £810.25

Maximum earnings disregard for a Lone parent with two children will be £750.00 p/cm. For any earnings over the earnings disregard, 65p in every £1 will be deducted from the UC. Also, if there are housing costs included in the UC, the maximum earnings disregard will be reduced by 1.5 times whatever those housing costs are. The minimum earnings disregard for a Lone parent with two children is £253.33 p/cm. The lone Parent will get whichever disregard is higher ? the one after housing costs, or the minimum, as the disregard will not go below the minimum for that circumstance.
Now it gets complicated...1.5 times the housing is £780.00. Which is greater than the maximum earnings disregard of £750.00. So this Lone Parent gets the minimum earnings disregard of £253.33.

£526.93 (earnings) - £253.33 (min disregard) = £273.60

£273.60 / 100 = 2.736 x 65 = £177.84

So 65% of her earnings OVER her earnings disregard is £177.84. That is how much her UC will be reduced by.

Maximum UC is £2,048.59. Which is still under the £2,166.67 p/cm cap. Less 65% of the earnings OVER the disregard leaves £1,870.75.

Total UC - £1,870.75

PLUS earnings - £2,397.68

Which will leave that Lone Parent getting £2,584.04 - £2,397.68 = £186.36 LESS p/cm Under UC than TC?s.

Which isn't HALF as bad as the previous scenario - I may have to check the figures in that first one again...

Thank you so much for explaining that, it has made things a lot clearer to me.

TheMouse - UC personal allowance is set at the level for a single adult over 25 on JSA. Which is £67.50/wk, or £292.50 pcm.

UC dependant child is just the CHILD element of WTC, as the family element is going when it changes to UC, saving £545 a year for the Government.

Hunty, Monthly sounds good, as long as it is made clearly the calculations are Monthly. It is very good of you to do all of this.

Can I clear this up.

Every household is given up to £500 per week or £2,000 per month maximum Universal credit - That is a maximum figure, and you would have to have 3+ dc to get that much.

The universal credit can be used to pay for things like CTC, CB, DLA and WTC amongst others such as HB, JSA, ESA. As long as you don't go over the upper limit, you can keep your part time earnings, which must be a minimum of 20 hours a week earning, it doesn't matter how much you earn in those 20 hours - UC covers IS/JSA/ESA/CTC/WTC/HB/WTC childcare element. It doesn't include DLA. It's more personalised than you are thinking with the earnings etc. If you want me to do a personal calculation, I'm happy to - but PM me the figures, then I will PM the results? Will that help?

PIP will relace DLA, and if you are currently on lower or middle rate DLA you will no longer get anything for that, you only get help for high rate DLA? Is the DLA included or excluded from the UC? - You will only qualify for PIP if you are on HRC as far as I can make out. DLA is NOT included in the UC cap. They don't think that PIP will be, but nothing is concrete there yet

Is CSA excluded from UC? - Finding conflicting information on that one, some places say it isn't deducted from UC, some places say it is. I am liable to go with that it isn't, for NOW

Does that answer your questions, Themouse?

Is UC personal allowance, WTC?

Is UC dependant child, CTC?

Breadandbutterfly - you don't have to be working at all to claim UC. BUT if you are a couple, then either one person in that couple needs to be earning £1,449.06 pcm gross, or both partners need to earn that pcm as a combined income - or they will face sanctions of their UC - which range from a 3-month loss of UC to a 3-YEAR loss of UC. Oh - and if you aren't earning £1,449.06 pcm gross - they can make you do 'Mandatory Work Activity' (Workfare). Even if you are already employed...

If you don't earn enough - you're going to be a SLAVE for Mr. Tesco...

I must be winning on the other thread. They have resorted to quoting posts out of context and insulting my intelligence.

Twats 0 KF 1

Universal Credit spelt out

A Lone Parent, with one child age 3yo, who works for 20 Hours a week, over 3 days, for NMW (£6.08/hr). The Lone parent in this scenario does not have to pay Tax or NI as her earnings are on the threshold of £121.60/wk.

If we assume this Lone Parent is living in the SE, and is paying rent on a 2-bed HA house of £120/wk, and her Nursery fees are £50 a day. However, this Lone Parent is allowed to use 3 of her Nursery vouchers towards the cost of the nursery place ? which will take off £15 a day. But they only get the vouchers for 38 weeks each year.

Under the current Tax Credits system, the Lone parent would get:

CTC - £258.33
WTC - £322.50
ChB - £87.97
HB - £520.00
WTC childcare element - £355.25
Earnings - £526.93

A sum total of £2,070.98 p/cm

Under the new Universal Credit system, the Lone parent would get:

Earnings - £526.93
UC personal allowance - £292.50
UC 1 dependent child - £212.92
UC Housing - £520.00
UC Childcare - £355.25

Maximum earnings disregard for a Lone parent with one child will be £750.00 p/cm. For any earnings over the earnings disregard, 65p in every £1 will be deducted from the UC.

Also, if there are housing costs included in the UC, the maximum earnings disregard will be reduced by 1.5 times whatever those housing costs are. The minimum earnings disregard for a Lone parent is £231.67 p/cm. The lone Parent will get whichever disregard is higher ? the one after housing costs, or the minimum, as the disregard will not go below the minimum for that circumstance.

Now it gets complicated...1.5 times the housing is £780.00. Which is greater than the maximum earnings disregard of £750.00. So this Lone Parent gets the minimum earnings disregard of £231.67.

£526.93 (earnings) - £231.67 (min disregard) = £295.26

£295.26 / 100 = 2.9526 x 65 = £191.92

So 65% of her earnings OVER her earnings disregard is £191.92. That is how much her UC will be reduced by.

Maximum UC is £1,380.67. Less 65% of the earnings OVER the disregard leaves £1,188.75.

Total UC - £1,188.75

PLUS earnings - £1,715.68

Which will leave that Lone Parent getting £2,070.98 - £1,188.75 = £882.23 LESS p/cm Under UC than TC?s.

I have calculated all figures as per calendar month, as that is the frequency that Universal Credit will be paid at.

Did you read that the Lone Parent in this scenario will be £882.23 pcm WORSE OFF ?

Signing in.

I have been absent. I apologise. Have had Ofsted. It went really, really well..

You have all been doing good work and I applaud you. I'm still working my way through the thread.

If they did work for 55 hours at NMW, they would earn approx £330/week. So the Uc would be reduced to a maximum top-up by the state of c £170/week.

Or have I got totally the wrong end of the stick?

Have been trying to get my head round the figures and details posted over the last few pages, but am failing - HuntyCat, you seem to be saying that to get the UC parents need to work for 55 hours between them at NMW (but less if they earn more) - have I got that right?

But what happens to people who can't get a job? Do they and their children starve?

Can you explain please - v confused.

Being a Tory doesn't mean you're thick. There are bright people and thick people in every political movement. They all have their merits. Extreme movements, however, tend to attract a higher proportion of thick people. That's because thick people aren't capable of wider thoughts, so go with the option that promises them the best personal return.

See potted Hitler story above.

(BTW, where are all the historians? I know I'm nothing like an expert! Someone fix my errors )

Yes SW is about right. You have to believe it or you couldn't live it could you?

The AIBU to think that being a Tory doesn't make you think thread.

Now I KNOW being a Tory doesn't make you think. SIL is very bright and has written speeches for some of those twats including David Willetts. Thankfully she's married a socialist even if they don't agree about politics.

I should warn you if you venture over there you may feel murderous.

Thing is (evening all) Kate, she believes that because that is what we all keep getting told, can't do anything to upset the rich, they might bugger off. Can't do anything to upset the banks, try might bugger off, can't do anything to upset the multinationals, they might bugger off.

That's true.

What thread is this posted on anyways?