Too Many Cuts...come join the #Frothers and have your say

Santa I was told both: there's already an hour requirement that will simply rise (as the job amrket does- oh no wait- ARGH!) and the wage level is new on top.

i really need to understand if it's minimum amount regardless of hours or minimum amount AND you must do 20hrs even if you have a severe illness?

and when are we due an election?

Bit of both.

From 2012 some regs kick in- eg minimum hours for TC claims gets upped. UC kicks in from April 2013 though.

Is this supposed to kick in in April 2012 or 2013?

Bread- right although I think you have to meet hours AMD time rules to fulfill criteria. DH easily meets hour rules now but invests most ion growing his business, so not cash rules; he will be forced to from April which means we estimate it will add another 3 yeras to when he can employ someone to help.

Becuase obviously jobs are not needed in this economy and we can afford to stop growing businesses investing.

Also LMAo becuase there is this image that we had kids under Labour, high money etc

first two older than tax credit system, we WERE poor then, I had 2 jobs. That was fine. I got quite a buzz from it in fact and Dh worked nights.

Neither of us can work nights now- DH takes meds that mean he does not even wake for a smoke alarm let along 2 hourly checks on the boys, so I have to be here to do it. Is a shame as opposite us is an ASD unit and I'd have gone on their bank otherwise.

So can I clarify - trying to get my head round this, sorry - anyone who fails to get a 20 hour job (or couple who fail to get 55 hours) at NMW, or less hours if higher wage (is that bit right too?) will automatically be made to do unpaid work for that number of hours? Surely that can't be right - presumably the person working 35 hours a week in a couple in that scenario would still be a jobseeker - presumably they need some time to apply for jobs and go for interviews etc? What happens if they are ill and can't work?

Are these forced unpaid work placements time-limited eg 2 weeks or something? Do those involved then go back onto the dole after this period? Can extra money for child care costs incurred by having to do this unpaid work be claimed?

Surely if Tesco et al know they are going to be offered hundreds of thousands of unemployed workers for free, then the incentive is for them to reduce their numbers of paid workers and actualy make people unemployed, so they can then rehire them for free at the taxpayers expense?

Please tell me I've got the wrong end of the stick! My mind is boggling.

Actually am LMAO at Boffy's post as it is so far detached from my reality.

DS1 gets HR Dla care element, ds3 gets MR DLA and the other two ahve SEN.

I won't qualify for no conditionality as ds1's DLA expires in Devcember 2012 and despite no reeduction in care needs (I guess you could say that he is now 12 and still needs 1-1 is an increase over the same aged *) I would be astounded if we managed to get HR.

Can hardly have him as a latchkey kid though; for a start his SN transport wopuldn;t allow him in without a parent or carer here, neither would ds3's.

My first instint when I read the details today was I would be better off dead. Seriously: that is not for effect, I have an eleven year MN posting history to back my general sanity up. Homelessness is inevitable if I cannot find this elusive school hours only job, if DH's business can't expand as much as needed to. I fully expect this to be the last Christmas the boys get gifts, or we get to travel to my parents to visit (60 miles). We've just handed in otice for our only hobby as we can't afford petrol after June (it is a year round commitment, signing up for six months pointless) and we needed to sign up for a new team to continue- that means that I now have officially zero RL friends, nobody i will see socially excepting DH and Mum who are adults. A few eyars ago I went ten weeks without speaking face to face to another adult apart from DH.

I tried to set up a business- the landlord's insurance said no. So working from home not happening. God only knows what will happen to us, I am just thankful that I live in Wales and can at least get a free prescription for the ADs.

my point being where do they think they will be if their husband runs off with another woman tomorrow? or drops dead of a heart attack? or gets diagnosed with an incapacitating illness and needs them to stay at home and care for them?

it's. so. short-sighted.

Great posts on the blog, btw.

Boffy,

The minimum wage is £6.08 for workers aged 21 and over. Where I live chilcare is over £5.00 an hour. That's not a lot to play with.

what really pisses me off on here these days is wives who don't even work themselves going on about 'their' taxes being spent on entitled scroungers. their wages. it really fucks me off. talk about living in cuckoo land.

sorry.

ok this is how i understand it. if they declare me suddenly magically cured i MUST work at least 20hrs a week or i'll be entitled to no help. if i earn below the cut off point i will still be entitled to UC to cover shortfalls in housing costs etc. to just what i need or is it the £500 goes to you if you do your 20hrs at minimum wage?

what is concerning me (other than the obvious fact that personally i couldn't work 20hrs a week with my health problems and there are zero jobs during school hours that i could do for 4hrs a day - not aware of any jobs that fit that mould and my son is 4 so not ready for latch keying yet even in this new world order surely) is that this gives no one incentive to get pay rises or go for good jobs or anything. if i have to do 20hrs but anything earned over a certain amount will be clawed back anyway then surely what they are doing is creating a situation where work will basically be class based - the poor, disabled and single parents are being marked as the peasant class who will take the mw jobs leaving the better jobs for others?

can i ask a really obvious question because i'm not clear - if i can earn my £212 or whatever it is that a single parent MUST earn in 10hrs will that be ok or will i be forced to take on another 10hrs of work? thus meaning i'll have to stack shelves for 35hrs a week as a disabled person rather than being able to do 10 hrs a week teaching or tutoring which would be more likely to be manageable with my health than full time nmw work?

sorry if i'm repeating myself but i need to know whether i have to work 20hrs regardless of how much i earn and regardless of how fucking incapable of doing it i am?

god it's all a mess isn't it?

all i'll say in response to the 'whingers' and 'entitlement' post is that the people discussing the figures here are for the most part either disabled themselves and/or caring for disabled dependents and on top of that are facing the reality that there are no jobs let alone ones that fit with their childcare needs or health issues.

will happily trade you your work ethic and self sufficiency for my health problems if you fancy it?? i used to earn 30k and be looking at being a hrt payer within a few years, own my own apartment and had the status and fulfillment of doing a demanding job that added real value to society. you think i traded that for 11k a year and being treated like scum on your shoe out of a sense of entitlement and laziness? get real!!! try to think outside of the box of tabloid and political propaganda.

Hunty
Will you be putting some of your calculations on the blog? I would like to do a general post on cost of living in UK, specifically focussing on the childcare and housing aspects.

I thought I would do it from the "other" side, looking at it through the eyes of someone like Boffy who thinks you are all workshy scroungers.

Boffy
Miaoow has put it better than I could, cause I am still frothing at your post.

You obviously haven't read this thread very well. There is not ONE parent on this thread demanding benefits so that they don't have to go to work. Most of them would love to if they could afford childcare to do so. And if they could get a job.

Not everyone is so fortunate that they can arrange private childcare with friends or family.

From Huntly's maths I can see a clear picture emerging.

1. Childcare care costs are more expensive than the income that can be earned during that time

1. High housing costs are a massive problem

1. Single parents will get by - just - but anyone who has a disability will be living in constant fear of being declared "fit for work" and having their benefits cut. What do you suggest they live on?

1. Second jobs are not that easy to come by at the moment when many cannot even find a first job

It is easy to look back and say, "Well, I managed so they should too", but can you not see how much more difficult it is now, with much higher cost of living?

Boffyflow - speaking as someone who fortunately has never needed to claim benefits - I don't think you can compare now to the 80s's. The cost of living is much higher compared to income - food, fuel, housing, etc. Childcare costs have rocketed. Minimum wage is not enough to cover childcare and also live on now, unless you get extra help. It doesn't make a difference whether you have one low paid job or five - you still need someone to look after your children while you work and not all of us are lucky enough to have family/friends/students who can step in and help. And how many people are now chasing these low paid jobs? I am fortunate enough to earn way over the average wage and I still have to watch every penny. I do not have an extravagant lifestyle - supermarket value brands and a ten year old car. However with a mortgage in the South East (can't sell so no option), childcare costs for two children and a massive fuel bill because the only work I can get that pays enough to cover my bills is fifty miles away we are often short at the end of the month. I am one of the lucky ones. It have no idea how people manage on a lower income, or on benefits. I'm pretty sure that soon many of them won't be managing and that thought terrifies me.
You are right, we should be campaigning for a higher minimum wage. Reference to immigrants is irrelevant, as they generally pay more in tax than we pay them in benefits (will track down the evidence for that one, can't remember where I saw the figures).

We should also be campaigning for more flexible working so that employers are offering jobs that fit around childcare, school hours etc to get more women working, paying tax and off benefits. However didn't this Government make some comments about higher minimum wage and flexible working being damaging to businesses, driving them away from the UK etc (that old chestnut) so not worth looking at?
Anyway, off to work now. Merry Christmas.

Having read all through this thread, I have to say I'm staggered at the attitude of entitlement presented by many posters.
I'll keep this as brief and to the point as possible - is it not the responsibility of the individual to attempt to support themselves and any children they may have?

With regard to the oft quoted point that the minimum wage is not enough to live on - it is possible to live on, if you are very careful and this was always the case.

I am now 50. I was a single parent with one child in the 1980s. I worked for the NHS in a low paid job and lived in private rented accomodation until I was allocated a council house. Money was always tight as I had to run a car to get to work (I worked in a large hospital which was situated miles out in the sticks). For at least 10 years I had no social life, bought my clothes in charity shops, couldn't afford to run the central heating and shopped in the evening when foodstuffs were marked down.
So I took a second job to help pay the bills and run my car. I worked nights for years as I found childcare far more affordable if I paid friends/family members/students to sleep in my house overnight - more affordable than day care. I was run ragged for years, going to bed at 9.30am and getting up again at 2.45pm in order to do the school runs. I rarely got any sleep at weekends or on school holidays.
I also managed to study for a degree during those years and am now in a management position with the NHS.

But I survived and I don't look back at those years and see it as being all bad - and more importantly, nor does my son. He is now in his twenties, is happy, well adjusted and has a very successful career.

Throughout all those years I suffered from OCD (still do) and had a moderate social phobia, so could probably have gone 'on the sick' at any time. But I didn't.

You people whinging about benefits really need to get a grip.
Anyone in real, genuine need of benefits should receive them, no doubt about that. People who are genuinely unable to do anything, even sitting at a computer, stacking shelves or working in supported jobs should receive help.
But all those of you who are complaining about the minimum wage should do one of three things:

1. Take the low paid job on offer and work your way up the career ladder.
2. Campaign for a higher minimum wage and stricter controls on immigrant labour.
3. Resign yourself to doing two jobs to keep afloat.

Totally failed to calm myself down enough for sleep. Should have taken a pill but, hey - too late now.
I wrote a new blog post that may possibly be a bit ranty.
Feedback?

Yes, thanks from me too, Hunty. You're one in a million.

For tonight - That's all folks! (at least on the mind numbing numbers). I will do more tomorrow, with a fresh head.

I will happily do personal calculations by PM if you would like to scare yourself shitless though...

Universal Credit spelt out

A Lone Parent, with two children aged 3yo and 5yo, who works for 20 Hours a week, over 3 days, for NMW (£6.08/hr). The Lone parent in this scenario does not have to pay Tax or NI as her earnings are on the threshold of £121.60/wk.

If we assume this Lone Parent is living in the SE, and is paying rent on a 2-bed HA house of £120/wk, and her Nursery fees are £50 a day per child. However, this Lone Parent is allowed to use 3 of her Nursery vouchers for the 3yo towards the cost of the nursery place ? which will take off £15 a day. But they only get the vouchers for 38 weeks each year. This lone parent also has to pay £18 a day for after-school club for the 5yo, and £40 a day for holiday club for the 5yo during school holidays. The total childcare fees are £861.00 p/cm.

Under the current Tax Credits system, the Lone parent would get:

CTC - £258.33
WTC - £322.50
ChB - £146.03
HB - £520.00
WTC childcare element - £502.95
Earnings - £526.93

A total of £2,276.74

Under the new Universal Credit system, the Lone parent would get:

Earnings - £526.93
UC personal allowance - £292.50
UC 2 dependent children - £425.84
UC Housing - £520.00
UC Childcare - £502.95

Maximum earnings disregard for a Lone parent with two children will be £750.00 p/cm. For any earnings over the earnings disregard, 65p in every £1 will be deducted from the UC. Also, if there are housing costs included in the UC, the maximum earnings disregard will be reduced by 1.5 times whatever those housing costs are. The minimum earnings disregard for a Lone parent with two children is £253.33 p/cm. The lone Parent will get whichever disregard is higher ? the one after housing costs, or the minimum, as the disregard will not go below the minimum for that circumstance.

Now it gets complicated...1.5 times the housing is £780.00. Which is greater than the maximum earnings disregard of £750.00. So this Lone Parent gets the minimum earnings disregard of £253.33.

£526.93 (earnings) - £253.33 (min disregard) = £273.60

£273.60 / 100 = 2.736 x 65 = £177.84

So 65% of her earnings OVER her earnings disregard is £177.84. That is how much her UC will be reduced by.

Maximum UC is £1,741.29. Which is still under the £2,166.67 p/cm UC cap. Less 65% of the earnings OVER the disregard leaves £1,563.45.

Total UC - £1,563.45.

PLUS earnings - £2,090.38

Which will leave that Lone Parent getting £2,276.74 - £2,090.38 = £186.36 LESS p/cm Under UC than TC?s.