Cap child tax credit after four children, says MP

George Orwell knew how it worked.

Big Brother ignored the proles. They could do what they wanted. They were ignored and abandoned. As long as Big Brother kept the well-paid Inner Party suits on their plush red sofas in line, everything was fine. The proles didn't count. I'm surprised that Big Brother didn't also say what the right wing think tank idiot said

"These people have now eaten so many carrots it's amazing they haven't turned into rabbits."

So how come 500 immigrants are finding jobs every week( month!)?

Yes, moondog, some people's moral compass has deteriorated. But it is due to an abandonment of education and moral guidance. The messages they receive, the rhetoric they hear, how they are treated - constantly told that they are feckless, feral. It risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Society has destroyed jobs, employment and hope. No wonder there is despair.

You see TV programmes with rooms full of 18 year olds being atught how to write CVs. But these are CVs for jobs that don't exist.

We have TV programmes with names like 'Shameless" that portray the British working class as thieving, feckless scroungers. But they don't make any TV programmes about army veterans struggling to make ends meet, about homeless ex-soldiers living on the streets, about Salvation Army volunteers, about working class people struggling against the odds.

That's why so many people talk about feckless, feral indigeneous people and the right wing think tank idiot says things like

"These people have now eaten so many carrots it's amazing they haven't turned into rabbits."

Claig, it is disingenuous to suggest that the people are nothing but victims of a sinister trap.
True to some extent but there is more to it than that.
I myself have dealt with hundreds,nay,thousands of people for whom 'feral' would be a polite description.

I used to teach hundreds of these young men, in prison and in schools and special schools.

Many were feral. And disengaged, disenchanted, anti social, frightening, aggressive, badly parented and desperately, horribly sad.

Many were fabulous young men underneath but would never reach their potential, they were wasted before they were even twenty. A good number wanted to join the forces but would never have been accepted so they stole and took drugs and wasted some more.

National and community service would have saved them. it would have given them structure and skills and discipline.
It is obscene that so many young men are wasted like this and we need to re engage them.

Thousands of young women are in the same position of course, but many of them get pregnant and repeat the cycle.

'I've already laid out the figures for someone on benefits and, as usual, nobody has taken any notice of them.'

Colditz, I have always taken note of everything you have ever posted on MN, and I am going back many years.

'feral males'

that's how they want you to think about our young unemployed men. That way it is all their fault and they get what they deserve when the cuts are introduced.

You have a low opinion of the British people. That's the message you are being fed, about scroungers and feckless indigenous British people and hard working more productive immigrants.

Do you think that the army veteran found dead next to his wife in his house just sat on his arse?

Immigrants are working and finding work here because the indiginous population won;t work in those jobs for the same money as they can get by sitting on their arses being supported by everyone else.

I'd introduce workfare and /or national service. Especially for young, fit , feral males. It would do them the world of good to have work, exercise, focus, discipline nad raised self esteem and would make many of them into useful and employable members of society.

I agree with it, but it should only apply to those children born after it starts. If you already have more then you would keep your meal tickets.

colditz, there are millions of families who don't receive all these benefits - the squeezed middle. People in work, but on low wages, who can't afford the ever increasing fuel and energy prices. They don't get enough help.

But the suits on their plush red sofas on their TV broadcasts don't talk about them.

They have got a guy from Conservative Home on the well-paid BBC's Andrew Marr show on right now. He says voters want reductions in benefits for families etc. He says that the Church is against it and implies that is why they are "out of touch" with the voters.

Thank God for that, thank God for the Church. They will eventually be the only ones standing up for the people when the elites and their green gurus really implement their low growth cuts policies.

But why are the families struggling? If you have enough money to feed your family, why are your family then going hungry?

As for the gnawing hunger of the soul - yes. I can relate to that. The reason I have a gnawing hunger of the soul is that I don't have to worry about filling my children's bellies.

The problem with having a government who knows they could be out on their ear within four years stops any of them from implementing any really fantastic long term policies because they are only judged on that snapshot of the country during the time they are in office.

People are struggling all over the country. Some people are dependent on food banks. They just don't make it on the news programmes delivered by the presenters in shiny suits with their publicly funded hundreds of thousands pounds salaries.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040024/Lottery-hands-425-000-charity-food-bank-Birmingham.html

www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Emergency-parcels-help-struggling-families-food/story-13319675-detail/story.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2059238/Army-veteran-Mark-Mullins-wife-Helen-driven-suicide-poverty.html

They fully intend to cut benefits and penalise large families. Read the green gurus and you can see what is coming down the pipeline. But it's all based on a lie. We need more people to support our society. That's why they bring immigrants in to make up the declining birth rate gap, and immigrants are prepared to work for low wages. They want to restrict the population and make up the gap with immiigration.

Read about the Fabian socialists like George Bernard Shaw and HG Wells and you can see where this eugenicist type attitude comes from. They believe that some people are inferior to them and they want to restrict their growth.

Gnawing hunger? What, because of being on benefits? I've already laid out the figures for someone on benefits and, as usual, nobody has taken any notice of them.

I'm on benefits now. I receive DLA for my son and extra tax credits but these are spent on his needs. Even before that, I managed to meet the family's needs on just base-rate tax credits and income support. None of us went hungry, not for a moment. We may not have had the most varied diet, but slight bordom with one's dinner is not comparable to gnawing hunger.

I'm with harryhill

Hilarious!
Thanks.

Twas breadandbutterfly, that known understater

I'm sure that what people on the breadline are really looking for is someone like you who recognises the gnawing hunger spiritual hole in their lives, and can feed their bodies oh sod that souls.

Harry, who talked of 'gnawing hunger'??!
Can you point me to that post so I can have a good chortle at the hyperbole?

Alouisee, exactly. It's not exactly difficult to implement a two child benefits policy for children not yet conceived is it?

Besides, that will also have a knock on effect in saving money on SS, free school meals, intervention etc etc.

Moondog speaks sense here.

Okay, a couple of points.

" gnawing hunger"? In families in the UK? Hardly. Really, you know that's sensationalist ridiculousness. Many people on benefits are overweight for a start off.

Sadly, the stats show that if you are the child of a single parent on benefits you are far more likely to end up that way yourself. The idea that benefit claimants are churning out the great and the good, poised to save the UK is a fallacy. Some do, yes. Most, no. In most cases the cycle continues.

The bottom line is simply a lack of responsibility. You don;t keep having children you cannot afford. That is a good, a simple and a moral approach. The idea that you can churn out kid after kid and me and you and everyone else must pay is pretty obscene. Not sure how anyone can think it isn't.

Something must be done to curb over population through whether we take a carrot or stick approach. If we do nothing then I'm fairly certain that life will become extremely unpleasant for everybody. We're using up resources faster than they can be replaced and no amount of well intentioned recycling will rectify that. Worldwide our population has doubled since the sixties, until then it took us about 150,000 years to get to that level. On a micro level UK has a rapidly growing yet ageing population so we've got a double bubble of trouble ahead.

Somebody within government needs to start taking this seriously and the only language people respond to is money so I would suggest tax breaks and incentives to keep to 2 children per family and stopping benefits for anymore than 2 children in a family. We can apply this immediately to tax breaks but will need a good warning period for parents wholly reliable on state benefits. In other words we will carry on paying for existing children but any that are conceived or born after the cut off date will not be counted for financial assistance.