If there was an 'In/Out' referendum on Europe, how would you vote?

What do those who think we should leave the EU think will happen in the short term?

The markets would have another confidence crisis as it would appear the EU is breaking up. This means shares plummet, confidence plummets and people end up losing their jobs. Is that a price worth paying do you think?

In addition, it's worth remembering that UK no longer has any sort of empire and our economic power is waning every year as giants like China, India & Brazil are growing. As such our world influence also wanes and the only reason we're still part of the G7 & have permanent membership of the UN Security council is because of our history. If we leave the EU we're relegating ourselves to relative obscurity on the world stage. Depends if you think that's a good thing or bad.

Oh well - at least Tory MP's have a backbone and know what democracy actually means - unlike Labour and the LibDems -

Cameron - you're a traitor to your party. Fuck off.

OTheHugeWerewolef

Good point. I don't know how the two sides balance up. I know I was surprised at the proportion of our exports that go into the EU (something like 70%).

out

rycooler yeah surprise eh? I wonder if those 70 MP's did rebel and vote yes? I'll read up on it tomorrow - time for bed now

Out. I confess I don't know much about trade, but some of the over-arching employment and 'elf and safety laws they've imposed are ludicrous. I'm all for protecting the employee from unfair dismissal, but under EU laws you can't seem to fire anyone at all ever, no matter how crap they are at their job. So unfair on bosses (like my DH) who then have to unfairly pile more work on the good employees while the slackers/incompetents do nothing and can't be chucked out.

There isn't go to be a referendum - what a surprise.

I'd vote out. The amount of money wasted in the EU is a disgrace. The MP's have voted NO to a referendum - when 63% of the voters want a referendum - how is that democratic? I don't buy this bollocks about now is not the time - ok if not now when? just tell us when we will get the chance to have a say about our membership - what we voted for back in the 70's is not what we have today. I heard on the news this morning that we are not allowed to trade with African countries because it will mean the French will lose out wtf???

Out of Europe - Norway and Switzerland seem to be doing OK. I'm sure we will be too - we can protect our borders, have some control over immigration and £40 MILLION a day to spend!

The fact that they have never submitted their accounts makes me want to spit. It' rotten to the core and I don't want to be a part of it.

definately in.
think of all the pensioners in spain, which is only possible because of the european union.

Bride OTOH if we didn't have to give zillions to the EU to fund the expense account of a legion of faceless paper-shunters we might be able to drop business taxes enough to make up the difference, and possibly encourage a bit of job creation outside Brussels in the process. Not to mention handing a small fortune back to businesses by reducing the amount of useless red tape

I'd vote in (reluctantly) because if we are outside the free trade block of Europe we're screwed as all our exports will be subject to import tax.

However, I hate what the EU has become- an unwieldy and bureaucratic gravy train

Cogito - no, the Albanians aren't yet, but will be soon I think, and have visa liberalisation, and it doesn't look too hard to get a document saying why you want to come to Europe (and then can travel freely within Schengen countries) and the Romanians are already in and causing problems.

Great, yes, more cross-border policing. Let's allow UK citizens to be extradited to other EU countries on trivial charges under the European Arrest Warrant, while the European human rights court stops us deporting rapists in case it breaches their human rights.

I'd vote out. The EU is profoundly undemocratic, stifles individual nations' ability to adjust their economies to reflect local conditions, is wreaking havoc in less solvent EU nations and seems to exist largely to support a caste of unelected bureaucrats at the centre while doing very little for ordinary people.

I was in Istanbul at the weekend. Having grumbled for ages about being refused membership of the EU, Turkey is currently thanking its lucky stars that they dodged that bullet - their economy is going great guns while the rest of Europe stagnates while EU governments keep pumping fake money into the economy to prop up the monster they've created.

A Foreign Office friend of mine says it's been an open secret at the FO for some time that they refuse to do a cost/benefit analysis of the UK's EU membership, as it's such a knife edge. The constant demands for bailout money recently have clearly tipped that balance. Even before we get onto the matter of the conflict between UK common law and European Napoleonic law, to me it seems that the EU has run its course. I think we should leave.

I'd vote out - no one under the age of 54 has had a say on Britian's membership of the EU - that's not democracy.

Personally I think that Europe as a common market is a good thing. But it seems over the last 15-20 years certain countries (namely France & Germany) have wanted a European superstate. And that was never going to work and now it appears true.

So on that basis I'd probably vote we come out unless they commit to stop slowly encroaching on our national interests.

That said, timing is everything and right now is not the time to come out of the EU. It would utterly destroy what fragile confidence remains in the economy.

I'm a bit meh about the EU but I certainly don't want to commit economic suicide.

Cogito - look at the expansionist problems though. The flood of beggars in to Belgium is enormous, and many of them are obviously used by gangmasters. The value of an Albanian or Romanian child in begging and benefits can total up to a £100k for someone. Do we really want that?

Add to this the culture they bring with them - bloodfeuds, the Bulgarian mafia, that wasn't what we signed up for.

Had a discussion on this the other day with a group of international mums.

The American married to a European said larger was better, and that it worked in the US. I disagreed (for Europe) and pointed out that Europe is actually all nations states so perhaps there are more barriers there than in the US. It also took a civil war in the US to get the groups (north and South) together in any meaningful way.

I am wholly unconvinced that deeper integration is the way to go. What happens when it all fractures apart, as it did in Yugloslavia? Kosovo is just about to kick off again, and there are and will be tensions depending on if Turkey is allowed to join.

Oops!

'(I was an adult in 1896)'

That was indeed a historic year. It was the year that the 'Daily Mail' was founded. How was it greeted? Was it with the same rapturous approval as today?

AArgh! Not free trade, Mr Pants! That's pants (couldn't resist it, sorry).

I think it depends on whether you think big or small units are the way to go.

At the beginning of all this (I was an adult in 1896) I thought bigger was better; that the Europeans were generally more humane (than Mrs Thatcher's government), and that caring and sharing was what it was all about. But now I understand the horrors of globalisation, I'm not sure that these huge entities work.

What we need to do is look back over the last 20 years or so and see the effects that Europe-wide policies have had on fishing, farming, banking, employment, education, etc. But even if we broke away, I doubt that would break the power of the banks and global companies.

I do like the fact that we have the right to go to universities and get jobs in Europe. All that stuff makes us better at understanding each other.

Assuming it was an option, I'd vote for a European Free Trade Area, AKA 'the common market', and ditch everything else.

I would do this because EU law is, amongst many things, stifling British businesses leading to higher than necessary unemployment - such as the Agency Workers Regulations, the Carbon Trading scheme and the proposed Tobin Tax.