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Politics

Is the US a fascist state?

140 replies

glasnost · 03/10/2011 21:07

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
  1. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
  1. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
  1. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
  1. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
  1. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
  1. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
  1. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
  1. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
  1. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

  2. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

  3. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

  4. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

  5. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

From Liberty Forum

On the basis of this is the US a fascist state? And the UK? Italy undoubtedly is.

OP posts:
slhilly · 05/10/2011 14:27

Care to actually point out the tautology, or are you just going to leave it as an ad hominem attack?

glasnost · 05/10/2011 14:25

Sheesh shilly, that's some tautological contrivances going on there.

OP posts:
slhilly · 05/10/2011 14:25

As for Syria's regional influence: it controls Lebanon. It channels arms from Iran to Hezbollah, and thus helps provoke conflict in a tinderbox region. Small fascist regimes can cause regional and ultimately global conflict.

slhilly · 05/10/2011 14:24

Yes, it is.

The US is not the only major player on the world scene, by a long shot. China and Russia both have significant financial, economic and military muscle, and their power is growing. They frequently intervene in the affairs of other countries (cutting off gas to Western Europe; the Tutu debacle; polonium; endless economic espionage etc). Their regimes are much more vile than the US regime. Saudi is obviously hugely important to the rest of the world because of oil. These are not small players.

And you seem to be arguing that what happens to the Syrian people isn't worth focusing on because Syria isn't a large regime. For an avowed anti-fascist, that's a pretty strange line of reasoning.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 14:23

What would the ADL be? Arab Defence League? Or arse, drivel, lies? (Your favoured choice of info source?)

Nutter? Anyone who dares cast a critical light on the official version of 9/11 events is a nutter? If they ever need fascist bully boy types again à la Mussolini's blackshirts I'm sure you'd make an excellent candidate.

OP posts:
Disputandum · 05/10/2011 14:13

Yes I know the difference glasnost. The ADL consider him to be anti-Semitic and give some convincing evidence on their website.

Not refuting that he's a 9/11 nutter then?

glasnost · 05/10/2011 13:55

It's bizarre to focus on the US to the exclusion of all others.

Is it, shilly? Perhaps the reason is they happen to be the globe's uberlords straddling it with their all consuming military industrial might? Last time I looked Syria doesn't have military bases all over the planet.

OP posts:
glasnost · 05/10/2011 13:53

Roberts is anti Zionist NOT antisemite. If you don't know the difference. Ha ha ha indeed.

Seriously I can disregard anything YOU say Diputandum.

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slhilly · 05/10/2011 13:46

glasnost, my grandparents got out by the skin of their teeth from a truly fascist state, unlike quite a lot of my other relatives: Nazi Austria. The US may be deeply flawed, but it is truly staggering to me that you see some kind of equivalence. The 21st century's closest approximations to fascist states are places like Syria, where thousands of people are being killed, where most citizens are much too scared to tell a journalist what they think of their government, where most journalists are employed directly by the state, where torture takes place on an enormous scale, etc etc. Or Saudi, where women can't leave their homes without a man at their side. Or Russia, where the FSB runs the government. Or China, where people are truly at the mercy of the state.

US citizens are incomparably freer than their Syrian, Saudi, Russian or Chinese counterparts. It's bizarre to focus on the US to the exclusion of all others.

Disputandum · 05/10/2011 13:44

Hahaha are you linking to an opinion piece by Paul Craig Roberts, conspiracy theorist and renowned anti-Semite?

Seriously, you can disregard anything he says...very prolific on 9/11 truther sites and other such nonsense.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 13:25

Did you read that link I just posted meditrina?? Please do so and then give me your factually based opinion. I'd love it. Seriously. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with all this but I'm very, very, very worried.

I'll just post it again if that's OK with you.

www.opednews.com/articles/The-Day-America-Died-by-paul-craig-roberts-111003-824.html

OP posts:
meditrina · 05/10/2011 13:15

I have no vested interests in the US government, and must cannot see where you got that from. I found your suggestion that I was trying to "pass myself off as an expert" to be insulting, as you were deriding me for something I was not doing.

I was merely indicating apparent inaccuracies and omissions in your descriptions. If you do not want to engage on those, I'll leave discussion to those who do not mind a non-factual basis.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 13:04

Anyone with a mind open enough should really, really read this. Puts the case excellently for America being well on its way to becoming a Ceasarist fascist state.

www.opednews.com/articles/The-Day-America-Died-by-paul-craig-roberts-111003-824.html

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glasnost · 05/10/2011 09:26

Who put Pinochet in power with a military coup? Just an aside.

You're naive to imagine fascism as jack boots, truncheons and desaparecidos.

Snooze. Read the link I posted before. If someone has the nous, will and courage to start a contentious thread that goes beyond the usual MN politics drivel at least give them the courtesy of reading it properly, considering the arguments and reading the links. Dunno why I bother.

OP posts:
sevenoften · 05/10/2011 08:31

No. It's not a fascist state. And it's incredibly naive even to bother asking the question, really. You could at least read up on, say, life under Franco or Pinochet (let alone the Nazis) and figure this out pretty quickly.

None of which is to let the US (and the UK) off the hook for the many bad things they do. But they're not fascist by any stretch of the imagination.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 08:17

Insult meditrina?? How so? By asking whether you have vested interests in defending the US gov? If you take that to be an insult.......there's more you know that you're not telling.

So you're all quite satisfied the US is in no way, not even vaguely starting to resemble a fascist state? Well, good for you. I think this conversation will be had at a further date when things are clearer for those whose vision is a tad foggy. Or FOXxy?

OP posts:
meditrina · 04/10/2011 20:43

Thanks, I'm happy I know about the legislative and executive branches, and I can see nothing inaccurate in what I posted.

Again I fail to see what point you are making, other than insult.

And I'd be interested to know why you miss the third main branch out completely.

abendbrot · 04/10/2011 20:18

Italy has its own history, that politics, religion and family dynasties have ruled on an almost equal level. They control different areas of life in Italy. Twas ever thus but it is changing, there is progression forwards. Similarly here, the 'corporations' you unilaterally refer to are starting to really irk the politicians and judges.

I have personal experience of taking a BIG pharma to court and although we didn't win, the Courts of Justice are extremely peed off about the weight that businesses are throwing around and more state checks and balances are starting to be brought in. The climate is definitely changing, the banks will get their comeuppance (when things are more stable) and Europe will learn some lessons or it will crumble.

chandellina · 04/10/2011 18:58

Glasnost, you are insulting a legion of politicians with a genuine interest in public service. to say politicians are all controlled by corporations is offensive and ignorant.

onagar · 04/10/2011 18:17

Ah that's ok then. :o

I'm actually a great admirer of Guy Fawkes.

glasnost · 04/10/2011 16:38

BTW my post of 15.58 was directed at meditrina.

I'd never think onagar had a vested interest in defending the US gov.

OP posts:
glasnost · 04/10/2011 16:35

I'm singling out Italy, abendrot, because I happen to live there.

But I've recently returned from the states where I witnessed first hand what I think will become ever more repressive measures against internal dissenters.

I understand people's kneejerk need to recoil in horror at the very thought that "our" democracies could have gone bad but I fear it's a fact we're just gonna haveto face up to. Like adults.

I should think the corporations are pretty satisfied chandellina. Seeing as they've achieved THIS:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

OP posts:
chandellina · 04/10/2011 16:21

"All US legislators are elected becuase they have tonnes of money behind them put there by corpoarations who then expect them to do their bidding once in office."

glasnost - thanks for explaining the US political system in such succinct terms. Now go ask a bunch of corporations what they think of their local and national legislators and see how satisfied they are with their pawns.

abendbrot · 04/10/2011 16:16

Good news for the common man today though - the pub landlady with the fight against Sky - that was quite a victory! Who says big business wins every time.

onagar · 04/10/2011 16:11

The US government IS democratic. It is also (like ours) quite corrupt and yes many (perhaps most) politicians are beholden to corporate interests. Some days I feel I'd like to shoot the lot of them and start afresh.

That's your strongest point btw so you should probably stick to that one and not try and defend the rest.