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Politics

Is the US a fascist state?

140 replies

glasnost · 03/10/2011 21:07

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
  1. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
  1. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
  1. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
  1. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
  1. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
  1. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
  1. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
  1. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
  1. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

  2. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

  3. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

  4. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

  5. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

From Liberty Forum

On the basis of this is the US a fascist state? And the UK? Italy undoubtedly is.

OP posts:
Disputandum · 05/10/2011 17:31

If it makes you feel better to think that anyone who disagrees with you is doing so for scurrilous reasons, then go ahead.

slhilly · 05/10/2011 17:30

glasnost, the journo who talked about Goldman Sachs wrote for Rolling Stone magazine. You can read it here:
www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

The quote was instantly sensational and was repeated and dissected ad nauseam in all the press.

You don't really think that the media hasn't been busy criticising the banks, do you? You could reasonably argue that it's all after-the-fact, but fascist societies do not allow criticism at all, neither before nor after-the-fact.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 17:21

My own take on a fascistic mind.

Wilful ignorance, insecure need to suck up to the big boys (girls), inability to admit you're wrong, intransigence, adhering to a group mentality, having unswerving faith in those in power, kneejerk derision of things you don't understand.

Or in layman's terms: yer usual MN politics thread.

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glasnost · 05/10/2011 16:47

Whole globe waits with bated breath while onagar catches up with the rest and dispenses a pearl of wisdom later on.

"She seemed to think the whole government was one big crowd who made laws when they felt like it". Ooh no they don't do 'orrible lickle fingz like that, do they?

OP posts:
onagar · 05/10/2011 16:33

meditrina I think there may have been a misunderstanding yesterday.

my post Tue 04-Oct-11 15:58:17 that starts flim and flam? was actually to glasnost not to you. She seemed to think the whole government was one big crowd who made laws when they felt like it.

Will catch up with the rest later.

claig · 05/10/2011 16:25

'But let's not forget that we haven't been invaded by Pinheads from the Planet Spud... yet'

Did you watch the Labour Party Conference?

Snorbs · 05/10/2011 16:11

Ooh, how deliciously gnomic.

But let's not forget that we haven't been invaded by Pinheads from the Planet Spud... yet

And the Royal Family hasn't been publicly revealed as shape-shifting lizards... yet

And I haven't posted this message and got back to what I should be doing... yet

Oh. Now I have.

paulapantsdown · 05/10/2011 16:10

I think most states verge right on the very edge of fasicm, it is only the reasonable thinking majority of the population that keeps it in check.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 16:07

Yet.

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Snorbs · 05/10/2011 16:06

I'm glad that you've recognised that you are able to air your opinions and have other people air theirs in such an open and public way and with no threat of the state taking action against you for what you write.

As you say, that's because this is not a fascist state.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 15:40

Still it's nice to see MN politics is so unfascistic and accommodating to all opinions and pluralistic and open to debate.........isn't it? And not at all singing from the same hymn sheet.

Let's have his conversation again in a few years. Don't say I didn't warn you.

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glasnost · 05/10/2011 15:33

www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

What are they prepared to do to stay at the top of the food chain?

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Snorbs · 05/10/2011 15:33

I think the US has many problems that are likely to get worse before they get better.

But I do think the list by "Dr" Britt is an absolute load of codswallop. It's a classic case of begging the question. If you compose a not particularly accurate list of a nation's supposed faults while being careful to only include those that you claim, with little or no justification, mark out Fascist states, then when you arrive at the startling conclusion that the US is a Fascist state it's largely meaningless. It's like saying "Mice have four legs, and fur, and two eyes, and ears, and look! So do lizards! (if we pretend lizards have fur, anyway). On this basis is a mouse a kind of lizard?"

A lot of the things on that list are factors in all sorts of different regimes from communist to fascist. Scapegoating of enemies? That's been true for as long as there have been societies. It's nothing unique about fascism it's pretty much endemic in humans. Links between religion and government? Again, that's been the case for millennia. Hell, for a lot of that time there wasn't any real division between religion and government because they were effectively the same thing. The US does, at least, have some clear laws about division between religion and state even if many of its citizens thinks those laws are wrong.

And a fair number of the things on that list are accusations that are flat-out untrue for the US: there is a free press in the US and constitutional protection for freedom of speech is regularly upheld in the highest courts. And I have never seen any wholesale disdain for academics or intellectuals.

I could go on, but I'm sure I will very soon be accused of being closed-minded and/or some kind of shill for Uncle Sam. Ho-hum.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 15:26

Am quite mortified re. that link I hastily posted about the ADL. I stand by the opinion it's a Zionist organisation that paints anyone who dares criticise the Israeli regime as antisemitic but the booksellers are, indeed, well dodgy. I'm half Jewish too so you can imagine how gutted I am.

Would like to know whether that journalist who dissed Goldman Sax was mainstream press.

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slhilly · 05/10/2011 15:10

I did read the post. I thought it was overblown amd absurdly focused on the US to the exclusion of truly scary places like china etc. For example, Goldman Sachs, whom you assert cant be criticised without retribution, was described in print by a US journalist as a bloodsucking vampire squid. No one gets tortured or disappeared for being rude about Goldman. Happens all the time in china

glasnost · 05/10/2011 15:05

No shit looks like I came a cropper there.

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glasnost · 05/10/2011 15:02

Did you read the OP and the 14 points slhilly AT ALL as I suspect you didn't.

I think the US is a NASCENT fascist state. Yes? It's a slippin and a slidin into fascism. The facilitator in all this is our blinkered refusal to see this.

And Obama counts not a jot so you can say what you like about him. He's a patsy. Try shouting loudly about Goldman Sachs from the rooftops as the occupiers are and just look at the treatment you get.

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slhilly · 05/10/2011 14:56

Did you really intend to publish a link to an antisemitic publisher that's a favourite of Stormfront etc etc?

slhilly · 05/10/2011 14:52

Ah, I see glasnost.

Tautology does not mean what you think it does. And I did not write that because Syria is a fascist regime, the US can't be. That would have been silly if I'd said it, but I didn't. I suggest you address what I actually said, rather than what you think I said.

I said:

  • Nazi Germany was a true fascist regime
  • The US was deeply flawed but was in no way comparable
  • The closest we get to fascist regimes today are places like Syria, China et al. The reason I said "the closest" is that even the worst of these is not truly fascist.

I also made clear what kinds of behaviour by a regime could truly be described as fascist, in my view, and that these behaviours are common in places like Syria and are rare or non-existent in the US. US citizens can shout "I hate Obama and everything he stands for" as loudly as they like from the rooftops - something that Russians cannot say about Putin, that Syrians cannot say about Assad, etc.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 14:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Disputandum · 05/10/2011 14:42

The Anti Defamation League, Glasnost.

I'm definitely not a fascist though, just to be clear...do you see them everywhere now?

glasnost · 05/10/2011 14:42

It's precisely because other nations could become hegemonic that the US is slipping into fascism.

www.newamericancentury.org/

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glasnost · 05/10/2011 14:35

We x posted slhilly.

We are used to being told Syria et al are totalitarian regimes and I agree that they are but it's silly to say because they are then the US can't be.

I started this thread about the US.

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slhilly · 05/10/2011 14:30

Is that the supposed tautology? Or is that an assertion? And if so, what did you think it proves?

glasnost · 05/10/2011 14:27

Huge fascist regimes can create small fascist regimes.

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