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Politics

Is the US a fascist state?

140 replies

glasnost · 03/10/2011 21:07

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
  1. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
  1. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
  1. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
  1. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
  1. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
  1. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
  1. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
  1. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
  1. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

  2. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

  3. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

  4. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

  5. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

From Liberty Forum

On the basis of this is the US a fascist state? And the UK? Italy undoubtedly is.

OP posts:
glasnost · 10/10/2011 17:57

BTW judging by what I've read of niceguy's posts on the Dale Farm thread he sounds like quite the fascist himself. So would probably advocate the disappearance of those "spouting" this "nonsense".

OP posts:
glasnost · 10/10/2011 17:42

Has a username ever been more inappropriate?

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niceguy2 · 10/10/2011 16:47

I'm just mindful of the fact that in the US (as well as here) you could spout this sort of nonsense and enjoy the full protection of the law for slagging off the very country you are in.

In a real fascist state I suspect you'd quickly disappear.

glasnost · 10/10/2011 13:53

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/07/cia-impunity-torture-tapes

Mealymouthed fascist apologists care to comment?

OP posts:
Disputandum · 06/10/2011 16:08

No I wouldn't.

glasnost · 06/10/2011 15:35

But unimaginative people like you Dispute only consider peaceful protest to be what the powers that be TELL you it is so (sigh) IF the Occupations were deemed violent and subversive as of now (maybe even contravening the PATRIOT Act for example) then you would support the prosecution of people for coralling support on MN. Go on. You know you would.

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Disputandum · 06/10/2011 14:17

No I wouldn't support any move to make peaceful protest illegal. HTH.

claig · 06/10/2011 13:51

I think it is a reference to Fox News, not Amanda Knox.

abendbrot · 06/10/2011 13:38

I think this conversation will be had at a further date when things are clearer for those whose vision is a tad foggy. Or FOXxy?

Please explain what you are getting at. What's Amanda Knox got to do with fascism?

glasnost · 06/10/2011 11:39

"modern and clever" enough even for you to master, Dispute.

What about if these "modern and clever" tactics were used to police sites such as MN on the lookout for subversive stuff? Would you support that? What about equating, say, an Occupation with a riot and making that illegal to rally support for too. Would you support that?

We're just waiting for some infiltrators to cause violence at an Occupation to discredit the entire movement and make occupying illegal, too. The power elite is always on the lookout for henchmen to carry out its dirty work.

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Disputandum · 05/10/2011 21:37

Well tbh if someone was trying to start a riot in my home town I would be quite pleased if the police used the 'modern and clever' tactics of (1) reading about it on Facebook, and (2) turning up to stop it.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 21:16

"modern and clever policy" of infiltrating the website.

Taken from your link, Disputandum. I'm sure you wholeheartedly endorse these STASI/KGB type tactics. When they start prosecuting people for publicising the, let's say, occupations on, let's say, MN you'll probably be happy. But the UK is absolutely, no way, authoritarian, right?

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slhilly · 05/10/2011 21:14

Riiiight. Miscarriage of justices involving freedom of speech mean we're living in a nascent fascist state. I see. Here was I thinking that nascent fascist states did things like mass arrests of thousands etc. Seems I got it wrong

Disputandum · 05/10/2011 20:39

I was referring to the arrests for trying to incite a riot via Facebook here

As I said, wasn't aware of the Robin Hood Airport story. Presumably it had to be taken seriously as it was reported by a member of the public?

KatharineClifton · 05/10/2011 20:01

Course they were Disputandum. In a parallel universe...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/twitter-joke-led-to-terror-act-arrest-and-airport-life-ban-1870913.html

Disputandum · 05/10/2011 19:46

I'm not familiar with the Robin Hood Airport incident you're referring to Katherine, but the Facebook arrests were down to trying to incite a riot and not just expressing an opinion.

slhilly · 05/10/2011 18:58

Glasnost, that's just ridiculous. You've mentioned jackboots, not me. I've mentioned terror, torture and abduction as being central parts of fascism

KatharineClifton · 05/10/2011 18:46

Snorbs:

'I'm glad that you've recognised that you are able to air your opinions and have other people air theirs in such an open and public way and with no threat of the state taking action against you for what you write.'

Robin Hood airport anyone? And there were those kids who were jailed for writing words on Facebook. Perhaps that all passed you by?

KatharineClifton · 05/10/2011 18:43

Seriously people? Both of these statements are unacceptable:

'But I find it pretty distasteful that you, a half-Jewish poster, should edge close to calling me, a Jewish poster, "fascist":'

'You as Jew should be more vigilant than most to any whiff of fascism.'

People are people.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 18:21

Jeez. Is Israel not fascist in its treatment of the Palestinians? Just because you're Jewish, half Jewish or a thousandth bloody Jewish doesn't make you immune to having a fascist MINDSET. I'm realizing you just don't geddit. You see fascism as intrinsically linked to jackboots, siegheiling etc. Try substituting that word you don't get - fascism- with authoritarian. OK? Now. See how you get along.

slhilly there's a part of me hoping you're a troll. You as Jew should be more vigilant than most to any whiff of fascism.

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slhilly · 05/10/2011 18:00

Oh glasnost, you're sounding fixated on the argument for argument's sake now. Why does it matter that the article was first published in Rolling Stone, given that it was repeated ad nauseam across every major news outlet in the US? How do you think you've proved your point about the US being a fascist society this way? Would the US be less fascist if it was CNN? I mean, really...

I have no idea whatsoever what your next post is about. But I find it pretty distasteful that you, a half-Jewish poster, should edge close to calling me, a Jewish poster, "fascist": "A fascistic mind noone is immune from", you said. An early memory for me is my Omi telling me about hiding in an attic while a Nazi parade went past her in Austria. Thanks a bunch for implying I'm of the same mindset as the people who terrified my Omi.

glasnost · 05/10/2011 17:53

"I think most states verge right on the very edge of fasicm, it is only the reasonable thinking majority of the population that keeps it in check."

paulapantsdown your post has been the most evenhanded of the responses I've had so far to my courageous thread. It's exactly because the reasonable thinking majority is getting increasingly thin on the ground as evinced by the majority of the posts on here that I fear for our democracies.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. (E. Burke. Ta, claig.)

OP posts:
glasnost · 05/10/2011 17:45

Yep slhilly. Selective use of the term "insult" is a tactic that's been honed to delegitimise anything an opponent has to say.

A fascistic mind noone is immune from.

MN rules of being courteous? Do me a favour. You had me taken in for a bit.

OP posts:
glasnost · 05/10/2011 17:41

Rolling Stone mag? Hmm not exactly CNN is it?

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slhilly · 05/10/2011 17:33

glasnost, generalised insults to everyone else rather than engaging with the arguments is hypocritical given your complaint and does you no credit. It's also pretty close to breaking the MN rules of being courteous to one another.

In addition, it's pretty close to demonstrating Godwin's law...