Following on from the 'get what you wish for you TW@ts' thread. the Erosion of YOUR civil liberties begins...well done.

A clerk in a magistrates court? Most of the cases we're hearing about have been referred to Crown Court for sentencing. There are already sentencing guidelines relating to riots (see Section 1 of the 1986 Public Order Act). A criminal act such as 'theft from a shop' (see Section 1 Theft Act 1968) can attract a sentence of up to 7 years depending on aggravating or mitigating factors.... looting a shop in a violent riot situation is an aggravating factor.

Cogito - one clerk to the magistrates in a London court announced, in court, that they had recieved instructions that they did not have to apply the usual sentencing guidelines.

That's quite different from applying some different, 'riot-related guidelines'. I'm not aware any have been issued or exist. Certainly wasn't time to draw them up before the courts started imprisoning people.

Alice - VERY good point. Why is it the investigation into assaults and injury caused by the police always takes so long any prosecution is 'out of time'? Very convenient.

They should just kill everyone now to be on the safe side. People are very costly and disturbing to have around.

"The courts have already thrown civil liberties out of the window by abandoning sentencing guidelines "

The courts are following the sentencing guidelines for riot-related offences very closely indeed. The riot context is makes offences far more serious than if they were carried out in isolation.

Enjoying the Out of Time decison on Jody McIntire (sp) dragged from his wheelchair by police on student march, likewise Ian Tomlinson so police can't be prosecuted, but courts open 24/7 to jail rioters.

Now; civil liberties. You were saying?

The courts have already thrown civil liberties out of the window by abandoning sentencing guidelines and remanding people who would never normally be remanded. Ditto imprisoning people. Did you hear about the poor lad who was remanded on a riot charge, the police published his name and address, then people burnt down his flat? Poor sod was cleared at trial, found not guilty, but lost everything thanks to over-hasty police and courts.

No doubt the government will use the riots as an excuse to do all sorts of things they wanted to do anyway. And to do all sorts of stupid things that will cause real damage, but give them flattering headlines in the Daily Mail.

Oh yes, Gadafi did this in Libya when trouble broke out there recently. They completely shut off the internet.

How did that work out for him, does anyone know the latest news?

;)

We lose the right to bear Super Soakers

If it wasn't for the fact we are in the middle of August, I'd swear that this is an April 1st joke.

Ffs what a hypocrite. Were you sleeping from 1997?

Excellent post at Thu 11-Aug-11 19:02:29
LIfeissweet

Yes, I agree. Good post Cogito.

There will no doubt be lots of tough sounding soundbites over the next couple of weeks as politicians from all side want to sound tough. Let's see once the dust settles how many of these ideas come to fruition and in what guise.

To me a blanket shutdown of Twitter and Facebook are about as realistic as his Tonyness suggesting police march yobs to cashpoints to take money from them. And as Cogito says I feel I can trust my civil liberties more to the Tories than Labour.

But right now it shouldn't be a party political issue and I'd prefer it if our MP's could stop slinging mud at each other for long enough to work together to find an effective solution to the muppets who've been blighting our streets this week.

Cognito - a very sensible post.

Cameron doesn't appear to be suggesting any kind of 'social media blackout' anyway. Just stopping individuals accounts.

Not that I think even that would work. Politicians and the police can't control social media - but they should learn to harness it's power (ASAP).

Follow @gmpolice - Greater Manchester Police on Twitter to see how it could be done.

Censoring the 'social media' is working well in Syria, atm.

Talk of.... but nothing actually happened. No cannon. No bullets. No blackout. Also no 90 day detention without trial, no mandatory DNA databases for innocente people .... If, in the extreme situations we saw this week, none of those measures were employed, why would they happen now? I think the police definitely need some clarification. On the one hand criticised for holding back and allowing damage. On the other criticised for being heavy-handed with protestors in the student riots last winter. 'Kettling' not acceptable but we have to have crowd control. Arming specially trained response units but never allowing them to fire a shot. The clarification has to come from us, the general public, as much as from the Home Office. What do we want our police to do, how do we want them to behave, and what additional measures are we prepared to tolerate on a temporary basis to deal with extreme circumstances?

I would much rather have a Tory/LibDem government in charge when these issues are being discussed than Labour.

Yup, talk of social media blackout, curfews, water cannon and rubber bullets. Sort of got us covered.

Totalitarianism

It's very disturbing.

TimeWasting I've been finding that book alarmingly relevant for the last year or so.

ttosca. They shot a lawyer dead in Chelsea not one person rioted....strange that.

It's a perfect excuse to reduce our freedoms.

May I please recommend Shock Doctrine for analysis of what may well have been going on in Dave's mind on his flight back from Tuscany.

great post lifeissweet

TimeWasting! Excellent point!

"Recently in the 7/7 inquest the court was told that the O2 mobile phone network was disabled under protocol ACCLOC ? a system allowing police to restrict telephone networks ? after the bombs by a senior police officer at 11.40am".

It's not a new erosion......precedent has been set - we've been sleep-walking into this for years.

This working group won't be nicely examining options and making a balanced judgement. It'll be working out how to translate that precedent into actual effect on further forms of media.

We have free speech. We have it for an important reason and, now that we have faster and more widely available forms of communication they will be used for good and for ill in the same way that all methods of communication ever have been.

DC needs to look to himself on this one. Why on Earth would young people be looking for the excitement and potential financial gains of looting at all if it weren't for the fact that they are being systematically hung out to dry by this Government? They don't feel that society (including the police) represents them, so why should they take notice of law and order? They have no ambitions, no prospects and nothing to aspire to, so why not loot and riot? What is there to lose?

So it was organised on messenger apps, but it could have been done just as easily by word of mouth.

Mild lol at activate slagging off social media on an internet forum.

Twitter et al are tools. How you use them is what counts. Tell that to the Libyans, Syrians, Egyptians, Tunisians.... shall I go on?