My DW just asked me if I was happy that the Oslo terrorist won't face the death penalty.

intentional killing is always wrong

i'd be happier if he hadn't murdered lots of people.

You can't take it back, no matter what the punishment. At least Norway can retain their dignity and humanity.

It was all about him, and his feeling of inadequacy in relation to the female sex.

But isn't it always? I mean even when they say it isn't, it still is.

OP- I'd like to see him in solitary confinement for 50 years or so.
No human contact. No sunlight. No laughter. Nothing. Just prison walls and his own rancid conscience for day after day, year after year.
There are things worse than death.

That's an interesting article, thanks for the link.

\link{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/8658872/Anders-Breivik-There-is-nothing-to-study-in-the-mind-of-Norways-mass-killer.html\Boris Johnson column}

'Yesterday the television reporters found an acquaintance of his from Norway, a fellow called Ulav Andersson, who said that he had known Breivik pretty well. He was surprised by all the Knights of Templar stuff, because he had never really been religious, and he wasn?t aware that he had been interested in politics.
?He didn?t seem opinionated at all,? he said. He just became chippy and irritable, said Ulav Andersson, when some girl he had a crush on jilted him in favour of a man of Pakistani origin.
It wasn?t about immigration, or Eurabia, or the hadith, or the Eurocrats? plot against the people. It wasn?t really about ideology or religion. It was all about him, and his feeling of inadequacy in relation to the female sex.'

\link{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8658418/Norway-shooting-Anders-Breiviks-diary-of-terror.html\extracts from Breivik's diary}

very strange man.

"he MUST be insane, mustn't he?"

A brief analysis of his lengthy 'manifesto' this morning on the Today programme was summed up as psycopathic. Apparently, it's a twisted combination of conspiracy theories, misinformation, accusations and grievances... all built up to being a rationale for his grand plan. They think he's spent years obsessively accumulating anything he could find that would reinforce his hatred of anything he considered non-Nordic. It was posted too late for anyone to prevent the crime. Insane, certainly.

Bellabelly, I think so too.

Mellowfruitfulness - I really really hope that you are right and that one day the full horror of what he has done hits him. I just keep thinking about those poor children and their poor parents and wondering how anyone could have commited such a crime. However cold and calculating he has been - he MUST be insane, mustn't he? I can't see how any person of sound mind could think that what he did was ok, whatever his/her political beliefs.

There are threads elsewhere linking to the Norweigian rules on sentencing. 21 years is the standard but it can be reviewed & extended on a continuous basis when the crime meets certain criteria.

I do not support the death penalty.

The news I was watching earlier opined that he did not shoot himself, because he acted to further his 'cause', and may believe that his subsequent trial and sentencing (and possible eventual release) will provide a fuller airing of that 'cause', in his own words, than any commentary on his death would have done.

It also said his first Court appearance is tomorrow, so perhaps more will come out then.

I saw today that under Norwegian law,he will not serve longer that 21 years in jail.

Still,I oppose the death penalty.

Btw... anyone else pick up on the connections between the far right party the gunman is said to have supported and the 'English Defence League'?

Ponders Sat 23-Jul-11 19:58:37 - Yes, I've been pondering (see what I did there?) the same question.

Imagine dreaming that you killed all those kids and then waking up to find it was true. I think that the realisation of what he has done will dawn on him one day. And he will have to live with it. A bullet through his brain would probably seem like the soft option to having that on his conscience.

My guess is that, similar to UK practice, the gunman will be detained far longer than 21 years as he will be shown to have some serious psychosis and need to be incarcerated for his own and society's benefit. I'm sure the gun laws will be looked at in Norway. However, despite the very high % of private gun ownership, murder/suicide rates are not excessive.

Hate led to this barbaric crime and no amount of barbaric revenge will turn back the clock.

I personally would prefer that he was executed.

I am both happy and proud that we, in Europe, do not prove that killing is wrong by killing. That teaches nothing. It is our humanity in the face of depravity that we can be proud of when horrible events like this unfold. I know it may not seem like much when revenge would satisfy more urgently, but it is what is right. I believe that we have to remember that when twisted bastards like this forget.

he's wearing one of those aprons in that photo, BS!

it won't be that kind of freemasonry he's interested in.

Freemasonry has long been associated with the occult and it's often (most would say wrongly) argued to be of interest to Hitler. It's one of those "things" that right-wing nut jobs have a tendency to get all excited about.

Judging by the early info available it seems he attacked the island (and Oslo) because it was a Labour Summer Camp and he disagreed with the politics of the party (which is also in power atm)

\link{http://www.freemasonry-universal.org/freemasonry/norway/freemasonry.html\Grand Lodge of Norway}

'Principles
To show compassion and fellowship is an obligation for each human being, but a Free Mason is especially bound and must be most vigilant in this area'

Apparently his FB page gave one of his interests as Freemasonry

\link{http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017851/Norway-attacks-gunman-Anders-Behring-Breivik-right-wing-extremist-hated-Muslims.html\top photo here} - I didn't know it existed outside the UK. Surely he's very young to be a member? Is it different in Norway?

& if he was anti-Muslim these attacks make no sense at all

I was actually pretty surprised he didn't shoot himself, although I heard a report that he tried to? Given that most of these crazy madmen do choose to shoot themselves I would keep them alive, contrary to their wishes.

I can't help feeling that someone who behaves this way simply cannot be sane. Apparently it was because of some grievance he had with the governmental policies- does he honestly think that, in light of his actions, people will look and say "well, he has a point?" What the hell is he hoping to achieve by this. I can only conclude it is not the action of a sane person.

I'm another one who thinks that a) the death penalty is morally wrong, and b) that it is too easy for the culprit- a nice painfree death seems a mockery of the terror he instilled in his victims. I'd rather he suffer (although am aware that probably makes me a bad person)