Richest students to pay for extra places at UK's best universities

I wasn't happy about the numbers cap and Lord Browne's original proposal was for more of a free market. So this may be a good change.

The poor as we know pay the least under the new system.

We may well need to get back to the 15% going to university which was the statistic when I went and jobs which clearly don't need a degree becoming non graduate. A very good thing.

It's the poor who get off lightly under the new scheme so you might find more of them go than the rich.

Useless ex polys which should have gone to the wall years ago may go and toilet paper degrees abolished.

It'# all to play for. It could be very good.

It will be interesting to see how 2012 and onwards pans out. I've two to come through the system.

Hi HHLimbo! Yes I cottoned on a bit later that it had been A N Wilson. What a very good egg he is, on the matter of tuition fees at least!

What a scary situation it is for parents and children of the 'wrong' age... by 'wrong', I mean Upper V1 form - current year 13 - next academic year.

My old next door neighbours have two children, both bright, one in year 11 now, the other, year nine I think. One working (teacher) parent. They won't be happy at their kids becoming debtors to the tune of around £45,000 counting in living expenses as well, when they leave school and start higher education.
My dd who is a student, has admitted to me that she feels guilty at being so happy and relieved that she got her university place before the fees debt monster is scheduled to be unleashed to prey on freshers.

Top uni's admit loads of 'nice but dim types'
This is a bad idea

Well Ill stick with Lib dems for now, hopefully they are adjusting to the situation and improving. Just need to keep the pressure on, and for them to keep challenging any crazy plans that come up.

Having a tory government is so tiring! like watching 300 toddlers.

"not sure I trust Labour not to just cosy up to the rich"

snort

they pissed away your money, how much more does it take?

Damnit. Greens?

I agree its not economically viable, the government's thrashing around over every policy seems to 'policy by press release'.

What a mess, I hope it doesnt come into operation.

Oh well if he has a very posh voice he must be right, HAHAHA!

'if you want to listen to 'Any Questions' on 'Listen Again' - there's a man with a very posh voice who put REALLY clearly the way I feel about the whole bloody fiasco (but can't express as lucidly).'

He was the author, A.N. Wilson. He is always forthright and never doffs his cap. You can read more of his views in his column in the Daily Mail.

I've always thought it was rather unfair foreign students have a different system. They still need their AAA or whatever for decent places but are not competing in quite the same way.

There are certainly a lot of problems with the new fee system because so few will repay the loans so it doesn't work as planned. One solution is encourage more to pay upfront.

Hi Cate - well, the one ray of hope is that the whole tuition fees thing clearly has NOT been accepted - it is still a hot potato, talked about at some point on the radio every day - they've just finished talking about it on 'Any Questions' (R4) just now, for example. Incidentally if you want to listen to 'Any Questions' on 'Listen Again' - there's a man with a very posh voice who put REALLY clearly the way I feel about the whole bloody fiasco (but can't express as lucidly).

I actually don't think it WILL roll into operation, this sky high fees thing, the way Cameron and co would be happy for it to. I'm on the edge of my seat watching to see how things might develop. Surely our kids won't, ultimately, be shafted the way Cameron envisages?

@dotnet "Cock up" is the expression I was thinking of.I see the Government's latest idea is for cut price degrees to be offered through the clearing system to help fill up under subscribed courses. Those who will be hanging on to get on to these courses will probably be the least well off as they try and avoid the £9,000 yearly fee. Also, someone who's already undertaken to pay the original £9,000 fee could be studying alongside someone who's secured a cut price place. How divisive. I doubt whether the govt. has really thought the tuition fees policy through. Is it too much to ask for them to govern the country in a professional manner?

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/universities-slam-willetts-cutprice-degrees-scheme-2283228.html

Does anyone else think that the regular attempts to tweak the situation the coalition opted for from 2012 is a sure indication that the government realises it has painted itself into a corner, forced through a deeply unpopular and retrogressive policy and now finds that this stupid move is also not economically viable for our economy, being as the high tuition fees' funding has to be provided upfront in the form of thousands of massive loan?

I get the strong impression that the govt is thrashing around, increasingly desperately looking for ways to reduce the economic detriment to the UK economy of this enormous, socially divisive cockup.

Do you have a link for that Bonso? I think it is more likely that rich students who have paid 'through the nose' will feel entitled to higher grades. They would be more likely to put financial pressure on lecturers and universities to give them high grades, (not though studying harder).

A university where some students are paying much more would have a 'perverse incentive' to pass that student even if the student is sub standard.

Of course they turn away borderline candidates, you have to draw the line somewhere. But elite establishments simply wont stay elite and maintain the highest standards if they start selecting on anything other than ability. Being bright enough to access the course isn't the same thing as being someone who really stands out and shines on their course. The tail can wag the dog and conversely more very bright students raises the bar for everyone. However marginally, accepting lower calibre students because they can pay more will dilute standards. Arguably £9k per year is more than enough to ensure students work hard once there in any case imo.

Of course the whole issue of how they distinguish between who is above and who is below their cut-off threshold and how accurate that selection is is a whole different matter, but a fixed cut-off is ideally what is needed and what they should aim for. And then because their standards are so good they will have plenty of first class overseas students applying who are both very bright and can pay more.

But the best universities turn away a lot of amply qualified students every year - and admissions is hardly an exact science. Plus, there is a lot of evidence that the more students pay for their course, the harder they work. So if a university department were letting in some "borderline" (but still excellent) students with the proviso that they had to pay through the nose for the privilege, you might get some excellent and very hard working additions to your course.

"As long as the students have the brains and previously-honed academic skills to keep up with the course" This is the key thing or the quality of the courses will suffer. The easiest way of ensuring it happens, and to maintain the high quality of our courses, is to have a single entry threshold. As we seem to have enough highly able foreign students willing to pay without compromising entry standards I see no reason to do so.

And why shouldn't the entry thresholds be lower for students paying over the odds? As long as the students have the brains and previously-honed academic skills to keep up with the course, it doesn't bother me if universities add on extra places on courses at extra cost for those willing to pay more than the cost of education.