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Original poster

Standard & Poors says the economic outlook for America is negative

41 replies

longfingernails · 18/04/2011 21:13

Can you blame them, after the humungous dose of socialism Obama has inflicted on this once mighty nation?

Thank heavens for George Osborne. Without him, we too would be in danger of losing our AAA credit rating.

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Niceguy2 · 19/04/2011 09:01

In some ways, Obama is a victim of circumstance just like our own PM & Cleggy are.

Whatever you think of Clinton, he left office with a massive government surplus on the books. George Dubya Bush then let rip with massive tax cuts for the rich (bear in mind that the US pay way less tax anyway), got involved in both Iraq & Afghanistan and as a result, left office with a ridiculous deficit. Add on top of that the woes caused by the economic crisis and voila a huge headache for Obama to sort out. Voters have short memories and most think politicians can wave a magic wand (or tax the rich) to fix every problem.

Ditto here really.

InMyPrime · 18/04/2011 23:35

'Obamacare'? Socialism inflicted on a once mighty nation? 'Perfectly sensible Ryan plan'??? What's sensible about cutting the healthcare budget for the elderly to make them pay upfront for their own care costs while using the money saved to pay for massive tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% of Americans instead of reducing the deficit?

Here's some free advice: stop watching Fox News and start reading some newspapers or other sources of information instead of mindless propaganda...

expatinscotland · 18/04/2011 23:33

Actually, the council was very impressed with his plans. A few tetchy locals got in the way.

expatinscotland · 18/04/2011 23:27

Gah, the Donald. His mother was Scottish. He bought this house up here. Some English guy sold it to him and was more than happy to take the money. But then the vendor got shirty, after he'd sold the house, that the Donald officially changed its name to his mother's surname. Haahaahaaa. He is so tacky. His tacky son, too (well, he has Ivana for a mum, go figure).

edam · 18/04/2011 23:24

Donald Trump tried it. Don't think the locals were too impressed with his golf course plans, IIRC. Maybe someone told him what his name means round here...

GiddyPickle · 18/04/2011 23:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
longfingernails · 18/04/2011 23:21

Well - I am a firm Atlanticist - but given America's woes, their socialism, and their pathetic President - we in Britain should capitalise.

We should have big tax breaks for American companies to come and create jobs in Britain. We are already going in the right direction by cutting corporation tax, cutting welfare, cutting income tax, and hopefully, by the end of the Parliament, cutting national debt as a proportion of GDP.

We could capture some of that private sector dynamism and entrepreneurial spirit that has made America the success it is. If Obama wants to "spread the wealth around" and punish the rich, then he will just drive them abroad - we should capitalise on our beautiful English language and shared heritage, and welcome the wealth creators of America with open arms.

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edam · 18/04/2011 23:20

yeah, it's funny how the credit ratings agencies are being taken seriously as if everyone's decided not to mention that little kerfuffle with Lehmans. And Enron. And the near-collapse of capitalism.

Did any of them spot the problem with the Icelandic banks, at all?

expatinscotland · 18/04/2011 23:13

Giddy, the thing about there is that there's no big welfare system like there is here. That's the biggest target for austerity cuts in other countries.

The other thing is that is that states have much power of self-governance. Yes, the federal system is 'superior' but states are sort of like devolved Scotland. They have a lot of leeway in how they spend the monies they are allocated by the Treasury (which is accorded by population), they can levy their own taxes in many ways, etc.

The other thing is that people there are much, much, much less accepting of government interference and nannying in their lives. They don't take it lying down, either, and just moan about it.

Things that work here aren't going to work there just like things that work in France won't work elsewhere.

Snorbs · 18/04/2011 23:13

S&P thought the sun shone out of Enron's butt, too.

Original poster
longfingernails · 18/04/2011 23:12

America has hitherto been seen as a special case. America was seen to be able to run deficits bigger than other countries, because of the dollar's status as a reserve currency - and America's de facto place at the very top of the international tree.

However, if even the President of the United States doesn't believe in American exceptionalism, why should anyone else? For those of us with a deep affection for that old American swagger, it is very sad to see. Combine that with persistent overspending, and a complete lack of reality when it comes to deficit reduction - and the downgrade in outlook is inevitable.

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huddspur · 18/04/2011 23:11

The US is playing a risky game with the bond market which has the potential to end in disaster for them, should the bond markets lose confidence in their ability to pay their debts. Conversely though it could be argued that Obama is using the Americans unique position in being able to borrow large amounts of money due to the strength and size of their economy. In truth I don't think anyone can say how it will work out for them but for the sake of the world economy we need a strong growing American economy.

expatinscotland · 18/04/2011 23:07

Remember when Regan swore under oath, 'I cannot recall' during Iran-Contragate and years later it came out, he was telling the truth! :o

GiddyPickle · 18/04/2011 23:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
longfingernails · 18/04/2011 23:04

Reagan had impeccable political instincts. He knew that the American public would be right behind him when he smashed the Air Traffic Controllers' union after they tried to blackmail him with their "indispensability". He knew that America would back him as he, together with Thatcher, defeated communism and embedded capitalism as a defining tenet of the West - a body blow from which the left still hasn't recovered. Above all, Reagan made America feel good about itself, the same way that Thatcher made Britain feel like Great Britain again (well-known exceptions, such as NUM members, aside).

Bush was stupid but at least he had conviction and guts. Obama is smart, but his values are rooted far to the left of those of America. Not to mention - he vacillates and dithers, and doesn't instincively believe in American exceptionalism the way every US President before him has - a rather sad state of affairs for a US President.

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newwave · 18/04/2011 22:57

Lehman Brothers was rated triple AAA

Maybe the rating agencies need to be tamed.

expatinscotland · 18/04/2011 22:53

Exactly, edam.

Snorbs · 18/04/2011 22:53

Amusingly, it was (at least in part) Standard & Poors' rank incompetence in rating equities and other financial instruments that caused this unholy mess in the first place.

edam · 18/04/2011 22:52

George W is pretty thick, and he got elected. Reagan was hardly a Mensa poster-boy. (Although to be fair some intelligent people make appalling leaders - I bet Nixon's IQ was quite high.)

expatinscotland · 18/04/2011 22:49

I think you underestimate Palin.

I know I did.

After going home last year, I no longer do.

The campaigns should start clicking into high gear in August.

I'll be postal voting again.

newwave · 18/04/2011 22:49

LFN you may be right but the ghost of the Bush era still clings to the GOP

I know little about Petraeus but at least he will know about all the waste and corruption in the military and their unholy alliances with big business, the question is would he stop it.

ChocolateCoveredlissielou · 18/04/2011 22:48

is it yesterday again?

Original poster
longfingernails · 18/04/2011 22:44

Obama will obviously walk it if Palin is his opposition. She is completely thick - it was a worldwide humiliation for conservatives across the planet that she got anywhere near the reins of power.

But Palin isn't going to be his opposition. There are plenty of sensible Republicans. Jon Huntsman and Mitch Daniels are the ones to watch. Huckabee is very friendly but too evangelical. And if General Petraeus is the GOP nominee, Obama will reap everything he deserves. Petraeus is lionized by Americans - Democrat and Republican alike. I don't actually think he would be a very good President - but he would be an electrifying candidate.

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expatinscotland · 18/04/2011 22:40

It's hard to say how it will go without being there. I'll be there over the summer for 5 weeks, even that close to the election, it can be hard to figure out what's going to happen.

newwave · 18/04/2011 22:37

BTW Obama will walk the next election.

The Democrats will vote for him again.

The undecideds will look at idiots like Palin and those from the religious fascist right and shudder

The fight between the "decent" republicans and the right wing nutters will tear the party apart.

And finally The Tea Party you just have to laugh.

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