Them and us - why posh Tories who claim to care about social mobility haven't got a clue

Double degreee You talk of disadvantage- well. there's disadvantage and then there's disadvantage ... most people would take the 'mild discomfort/disquiet' form over the 'one insurmountable obstacle after another' form whether or not both ends of the spectrum feel the effects of prejudice, because at least if one is at a certain end of the spectrum then one is not going to be terribly disadvantaged materially by this prejudice/disadvantage.
As for Cameron, I suspect he doesn't lose a lot of sleep over it really.

wook, no problem. I make jokes about the Mail too, but I still think it is the best paper by far.

Newwave, I agree. I live in Belgium where there is no real Public school system - there are some private international schools though. The standard of education is generally much higher. Even the King's GC go to normal state school. (Though I expect you probably need to camp outside for a week to get a place in Kindergarten at that one....)

Maybe Cameron would have made PM without that phone call (if it really happened) but he will now spend his whole life wondering if he only got there because of who he knew. I think it's very unfair to assume he isn't bothered by that.

No, the fact that he is a member or related to the aristocracy and was a member of the Oxford Bullingdon mafia had nothing to do with it at all FFS

btw, the same also applies to Gideon.

All the public school boys in the cabinet are there on merit not because of a leg up and connections nor because they are rich, who would think such a thing.

As for this party you missed try telling that to the millions out of work and those who lost their homes during the Thatcher years. Yes there was a party but it was for rich fucking yuppies.

Still at least you appreciate how lucky you are most seem to thing it was their right and entitlement.

DoubleDegreeStudent, I fail to see what you are whinging about. You have been given every opportunity - make the most of it. Make the most of your life that you can. That is what EVERYONE should be doing.

newwave thats is exactly the point I have made in this debate in sociology before.

If they were abolished, the outrage of such people when faced with sending their "gifted children" to lesser schools, combined with their influence, would FORCE the improvement of all state ed.

No politician has the balls to do it though, mummy and daddy would be so annoyed

www.suttontrust.com/research/summary-recent-changes-in-intergenerational-mobility/

This contains the graph I was looking for- showing that early ability/promise is not translated/ less likely to be translated for poorer kids, whilst posh rich twats less intelligent but wealthier students overtake- and shows how early on this happens so that the gap just continues to widen as those students go through th eearly years of school.

claig apologies- really did not mean to offend (unlike the editor of the Daily Mail) DM/comic is a running joke with my mum, who often quotes from it very earnestly as in 'But did you know that these immigrants eat baby soup darling?' which makes us fall around laughing. She tends to take it in good humour though, (and we do all enjoy YOU magazine )

woah double degree

Just to be clear, I am not judging you at all. You did not choose the school you attended. You clearly talk alot of sense.

I only judge the parents who send their children to these schools, and then use bigoted rubbish to justify it.

Plenty of countries have no private education provision (Finland for example) and are better for it.

If the rich and affluent had to use state schools then their influence would help to improve all schools, the "class" divide is one of the things holding back our society along the retention of the royal family and aristocracy.

Suzanne Moore writes for the Mail.

Know thine enemy.

I find it quite offensive that people will judge me based on my schooling. I went to public school, I'm studying a good degree at a good university, and I have absolutely no idea what I want to do with my life. I fully appreciate I am lucky because if push comes to shove I can move back home until I find a job, and many people can't, but it is also a disadvantage. I look at a job I want to apply for, there is a director who is an old boy of my school. I think of a different field, family friends offer me work experience.

I haven't taken any offer of help I have been given, because I want to avoid comments like some of these from people who assume that the only reason I achieve anything is because I have been lucky. I accept I have been lucky and I am grateful, but that doesn't mean I shout about it, and it doesn't mean I am inbred and an idiot.

Anyone at either end of the spectrum feels like they are being prejudiced against, and anyone in the middle feels like they have been ignored. Nobody can win at the moment. I'm 21, and I feel like I'm suffering from the decisions made by earlier generations.

My sister's colleague summed it up: "it's like we've been having a party for the last 20 years. I'm sorry, you missed it".

The situation is rubbish. Some people are luckier than others, but nobody has everything. Maybe Cameron would have made PM without that phone call (if it really happened) but he will now spend his whole life wondering if he only got there because of who he knew. I think it's very unfair to assume he isn't bothered by that.

Going back to the OP, people get jobs because "they know someone" at all levels, it is not just reserved for posh people. I got DH a job once, in the days before he was DH. They call it networking these days, but it used to be your dad, or your uncle knew someone who needed someone etc.....and people get work all the time on the recommendations of others. It is just life.

Re. Social mobility, I think a return to Grammar schools and proper streaming in schools would help. Not every child should go to University. It should be an elite of the academic performers. Who decided that you were a failure not to get a degree as opposed to doing a vocational course or apprenticeship?

All these A star A'levels and crappy degrees do no one any favours. They don't even get you a job these days. We need to go back a lot more to day release and work based training. That gives kids more chance to shine at what they are good at.

Are you sure you are not mistaking the Mail for the Guardian?
Suzanne Moore writes for the Mail. Is she also swivel-eyed?

Meh, the coalition will collapse, they always do

claig,Daily hate Mail readers may not be dumb but they are swivel eyed and narrow minded :o

swc.

Please tell me why you are so dispariging of state education.

My oldest son has a 2-1 in maths and economics from a good uni

My youngest is at Warwick Uni doing Eng Lit

Both went to state school and got good support throughoutm my position is that I want the same for all

wook are you a redhead?? If so my support for your argument has grown even more!!!

Yes SWC, my level. now, would that be my inferior genetic level, due to the fact im not a middle class tory voter?

Because after all, if you cant buy advantage it must be genetics. So mine are clearly flawed, hence why I do not send my child to private school. Boo Hoo.

I'm not prickly about it at all. I know it's a great paper and the more you attack it, the more it proves my point. However, you are implying that I am thick and that anyone who quotes from the Daily Mail is also thick. It is a way to dismiss the opinions of other people and to close down debate. I know you're cleverer than me, but if you are as decent as you pretend, then it is unkind to point it out.

swc, "defined by law" yes an anachronistic law that wont be repealed as it suits those with money, influence and power.

The definitions of charity are a dictionaries not mine although they are correct

please, please tell me how Eton qualifies to be a charity, not because the law says so, the law can be an ass, but from a position of logic.

Excuse me but what is 'me and my sort' swc ? Do you mean 'teachers' as a whole? Women? Fortysomethings? People who don't read The Daily Mail? Redheads?

yeah, your right SWC, Im stupid.

Just not quite stupid enough to be pulled into your emotional blackmail tactic of winning an argument.

Claig you're very prickly aren't you? It's quite simple, if you don't want to be accused of intellectual inferiority and/or so right wing you may begin to foam at the mouth then don't quote from the Daily Mail. No need to get all defensive. As a matter of fact, my parents read the Mail and I happily tell them that it's a comic for people who need big pictures with their 'news'. They take it in better spirits than you though.