Is there such a thing as "severe poverty" in the UK?

Royalty you say? Damn someone must have stolen my crown before I was even given it as I've never seen sight nor sound of it!!!!

I grew up in severe poverty.

we were homeless (has "temporary" emergency housing - for over 4 years! was supposed ot be 6 months max.). we frequently could not afford electricity - can you imagine having to go to school and say you haven't done your homework because there was no light? (in winter, obv). I used to sit by the window trying to read by the light of the streetlight down the road.

to make it worse, I was at a private school (full scholarship. transport paid by bursary). so to have to say things like that really did make me stand out.

we often had no food.

I remember one half term, when I was about 15, when all I had to eat for 4 days was a jar of peanut butter and the end of a box of cornflakes. god only knows what my mother did for food for those few days (was the end of the month, although our "normal" food situation was not much better).

we had no electrical items that owuld be counted as standard - no computer (woudl have been games consoles in those days, twas before the home internet epidemic!), no tv. no phone (landline, obv). we did have a radio. my peers at school could not comprehend my existence.

I wore my brothers hand me downs (a great look as a teen!), and only had the one pair of shoes, which usually had holes in.

our accommodation was as others have described - damp, cramped, with mould growing on the walls and rain pouring through the roof.

if you have ever read "Twopence to cross the Mersey" - that was pretty much how we lived, with obvious modern differences (like decimalisation )

we had no washing machine, and could not afford the launderette most of the time (probably about once every 2 months). my mother and I hand washed everything in the bath (usually in cold water). the niceties of life, such as sheets for the beds, soon went by the wayside as we could not get them washed or dried.

this was not that long ago, and I have little doubt that such situations continue today.

anyone who says the severe poverty does not exist in this country has not experienced life, is all I can say.

Ah Baroque but you're Mn royalty (and I mentioned you on THAT Fb club just now LOL) so you an get away with it

Don;t worry, just because Id on;t do it I don;t think others mustn't, but I don;t see why we shoudl be labelled with whatever prejudice people ahve either IYSWIM.

Anyhow I know your story adn why thinsg ended up as they did, I also know how adament you'd never end up on benefits pre ds3 and what happened toc asue that so frankly I think you've done amazing to be so strong and give your boys such a happy life.

IMO there difference between someone who wants to work and is working towards that and someone who woudln't if they could is key. Everything else is just silly stereotyping. Like FS tv's- I eman, people do get tings BEFORE they lose jobs, or are loaned things, given them by family etc. Nobody turns up with a big van the day you get your P45 to take everything you earned and replace it with old stuff. Indeed, ds4 has a Cath Kidston coat- bought from my earnings- and so far I have not noted a ruling that says I ahve to trade it in for Primark (mind lining has a blood stain so they wouldn't want it back anyway- shoudl he wear a sign stating that I wonder? ....)

Tskkk TSC - what do you mean literate and intelligent - you're poor - you must be thick and illiterate

"Poverty is not just about not having money, its about lack of oppurtunity and being marginalised from society."

Absolutely, spot on.

ahh welll Santi - shoot me now - I have 3 kids, one concieved when we'd only just started to dig ourselves out of a financial hell hole (I still get shudders thinking about those days), I smoke (fyi £12.46 a week, or £7.67 a week depending on whether I've done an online shop from asda).

AND - DS1 has a phone, it's not an iphone, or a blackberry, but he has a phone.

However, to counter that I don't actually own a TV - this is the LL's TV - and big old fat clunky one, which is worryingly temperamental. Funnily enugh when it dies I will replace it with a flat screen..............because that's all they sell these days! Yep that's right the flat screen LCD TV's are the only ones that places such as Tesco sell - just looked you can pick one up for £85 new, which of course means that when other people "upgrade" their "old" flat screen TV they also go pretty cheaply second hand,.

Flat screen TV is really no big deal, it just means they've bought their TV someties within the last oooo I don't know 4 or 5yrs......

Oh and FWIW there's no system ATM to distinguish who the severely disabled are

or even a proper definition of it.

All getting HR DLA means is that you need night care AND day care; there are many less severely disabled children getting HR DLA because they sleep through when their non sleeping counterparts with lesser needs get HR becuase they are awake all night: that's probably right in terms of the 'care burden' and what it costs for carers to employ cover as well if they get sick or need to do something radically indulgent like sleep themselves, but means there is no database of the most severe.

Of course DLA is changing so people with autism will struggle to get anything because of the way the new ATOS assessments work.

TSC You can't argue with stupid

Don't bother feeding it, people.

Maypole did you even read my post?

bone idle? really? I wish! I wish I had the choice to be, anyway; as it is I am up all night and all day and grab sleep in the middle.

No childcarer locally will touch ds1. I don;t blame them/.

Scrounger? Like hell. I paid taxes for years, and that's why they call it national insurance.

No btw, we don' have a flatscreen, sky, kids don't have phones (yet) (we do due to kids being scattered across four schools). I have zero interst in a flatscreen actually or sky, might get myself an android when I get back to work.

All kids with one father, all conceived and born with FT work in house etc etc etc

I refuse to accept being called names when I had zero choice in any of this and neitehr did DH. Dh works every hour he can to do the best adn there genuinely are no jobs here, even the Tories admit that- their advice is to people here move; but to where? theyc an;t hguarantee autism specific schooling places if we do, palces long gone; they can't offer us a house and system won;t house us just because we land somewhere.

In two years i should ahve this sorted and have a very respectable job all being equal. And Dh will have been able to turn the business to a FT profit. But climbing back on our feet takes time and I will not sit by and be villified for that becuase I never chose it and anyone who did choose this lifestyle would ned their kids taking away- i don;t eman the poverty but watching teh chidlren ahve to cope with autism which is a fucker of a disorder in my experience.

Poverty is not just about not having money, its about lack of oppurtunity and being marginalised from society.

Its being the child who never gets to go to school trips, its the child who knoes that no matter how bright they are they won't be able to go to University, its the mother who can't afford new shoes for her child, its the man who can't afford to get the bus to an interview....live a day in someone elses shoes and then judge.

well yes the immigrant is usually able to work unsociable hours (nights, weekends, and work multiple jobs, and 50,60+ hours a week) - that's not possible if you have children,

And who exactly do you think will look after all the children of those "feckless" parents who supposedly had children to live off the state .

You really do have no idea do you? You made that obvious with your post about only people who are disabled and are being medicated for MH issues being "allowed" to claim benefits. DUH! Many of those people already work! (and you missed the vital part that people who are working claim benefits too

I would LOVE a job, and indeed am desperately hoping I find one when DS3 starts school in September, I fear it may not be so easy, I can't take a job under 16hrs a week - no tax credits, and lose your other benefits (aka be horrendously worse off). I can't work 40+ hours a week, I simply won't be able to pay the 20% (though I think it's going up to 30% soon if it hasn't already?) that I will be required to pay for childcare for DS2 and 3. And I refuse to leave a child that has only just turned 11 at home on their own during school holidays all day every day. 20-25hrs is going to be bad enough for him

I can NOT work nights, or weekends. I can't work lates or earlies (childcare issues - simple fact there is none of those times) - round here that severely limits the number of jobs.

If you think that there are millions of people on benefits who had children just so that they could live off the state you are even more delusional than I could imagine .

oh and Maypole you are a twat

Ahhh, maypole the old "if they can afford fags" argument. People living in poverty are allowed some pleasures in life surely??? Clearly you're a tory.

maypole1 .... yes dear

LegoStuckinMyhoover its always amazing to me how people who claim to have no money can afford to have yet more children, smoke, have sky and x box to me somone who is living in a mud hut eating maze is poor

if you have no food in your house and still have and £££ of equipment then you are a fool and should not be in charge of any child

not being able to buy leroy and your 20 other children the lastest phone is not poor

it these people stopped having so many bloody kids and paid a tutor for their children instead of 20 b&h then they wouldnt be in the issue their in

its up to these people parents to do better for their children if they wont we have people to deal with this

instead of begging for yet more money from the sate the lefties should be telling these children parents to stop having children you cannot afford to raise

its ouragous to have 10 kids with no way of supporting them then reach out your begging hand and say oh if you dont give them benafits then their children will starve
well let them sell their flat screen or heres a thought LET THEM GET A JOB TO FEED THEIR football team and if they wont get a job them let them starve and take their children

i have no time for people who use their children as a way in wich to scronge from the state their even worse than people who scronge who have no children

were are the jobs you say its funny our bone idel can never seem to find a job but the immigrant who cannot claim anything always seems to find work its funny how starvation motervates somone to get a job

oh fgs - how many times does it have to be said that poverty isn't just a lack of money, and that throwing money at someone isn't going to solve the problems??

Do you really think that one pair of shoes is enough?

My DS's "need" 6 pairs of shoes (8 if you include the pilmsols) between them. They need school shoes, shoes for wearing at home, DS1 needs trainers for PE.

That's how many shoes they own, they don't currently have any wellies that fit, or boots, or slippers, of course with summer coming up I'll need to buy them some sandals. I shop at shoe zone (eve I with my strict budgeting and very very little debt to pay can't afford "decent" shoes for all of them).

And surely not being able to go on school trips is a poverty of opportunity?

Poverty is SO much more than a lack of money. often, for those that have known nothing else all their life a cycle of hopelessness and despair.

I know a woman...

I know a man...

I know (or heard on telly or was told by a mate of a mate down the pub what's the difference) of a politician fiddling her expenses, an accountant colluding in fraud, a consultant faking his timesheet, a lady who lunches who shoplifts, a banker with his hand in the till.

Just goes to show.

I know a man who's a rapist, a driver who killed someone, a white person who's a murderer.

Just goes to show.

I know an asylum seeker who dropped litter, a lawyer doing cocaine.

Just goes to show. In my book. Lock em up. Don't give em money. People like that.

There may be a man who isn't a rapist, a lawyer who doesn't take drugs. A driver who hasn't killed anyone, a white person who hasn't murdered, a banker who doesn't steal. An honest accountant, and lunching lady and even a politician. And an asylum seeker who sweeps in front of her house and clears her neighbour's drive of snow.

But we can't take the risk. The poor will suffer.

Because I know a woman. I know a man.

How do you differentiate niceguy between the person who buys ciggies and the eprson who is paying someone to give their kids a few hours extra reading help / footie club membership / childcare so they can study (only covered at HE level; had to find ours when I did access from CB, sure I couldn't do it now?

'Life' dictates that there has to be a small surplus to cover emergencies, and indeed to allow the sort of expenditure that gets people back stable again- interview outfit, car for soem career paths / locations. how do you control who ahs the wherewithal to improve the lives of them and their children, and who loses becuase they might spend it on fags.

As an aside I remember years ago encountering some study that single parents who smoked had lower stress levels but no links and before anyone accuses me, nope absolutely do not smoke, neither does dh. No idea how anyone could afford to.

I actually do think it's appalling if missing out on a school trip is caused by poverty; why should a child's education be affected by their aprents beingc arers, for example? Now I don't mean the ski trips that hardly anyone can go on but for example, the visit to a Synagogue ds3 is going on next week. Or swimming lessons- £20 for the bus for school lessons IIRC, yet IMO very important (though I grew up by a canal and remember the child who drowned so am particularly funny about that).

Ultimately if we cut lots from the just-coping famillies to focus 100% on all others you would allow those chidlren less opportunities- ds's cubs costs us £30 a term, it's the only respite he gets in the absence of young carers (3 year waiting list). I suspect long term that would impact on those children's earningc apabilities and in turn tax revenues, plus studies already show those children are more susceptible to worse health outcomes etc- a roof doesn;t guarantee it's not a damp one, after all- and health costs the state a lot.

But then as what is effectively being said here is that ds2 and ds4 should lose out through their brother's disability on the basis that some are even worse off than us, I will withdraw from the thread becuase like any Mum, I will fight to keep my children's lives as full of potential as possible- and if money gets any tighter for us then we would not only be homeless (private LL, £200 above LHA threshold, nobody woudl touch us with a self employed low earner ) but unable to give him the extras such as respite he currently benefits from. he, and we, did not ask for this and I refuse to accept that as taxpayers (albeit tiny amounts, but lifelong ones nevertheless) we are worth abandoning along the wayside. Which in all honesty with services vanishing left right and centre is how it feels.