Is there such a thing as "severe poverty" in the UK?

I'm sure people in the 50's used to say the same thing bout poverty in the early 1900's too.............and those in poverty in the early 1900's probably said the same thing about poverty in the early 1800's (before the workhouses and education for the (lucky) poor - which s shocking as they were, were actually step forward in those days in terms of helping). I bet even in the early 1800's people talked about how easy the poor had it compared to........

And yes - if you'd read my thread you'll see that my parents also packed up shop and moved to the other end of the country away from everyone they knew try and improve things for us as a family. We were the lucky ones.

lovecorrie - if you hadn't bought your own home (that's the key there) and were in a private rent then you would also be getting help with rent. You may still (depending on his income) get some council tax benefit, your tax credits will increase, you will still get child benefit.

The cost of living has increased far quicker than salaries. in 2000 the price of a loaf of bread was 52p..........minimum wage was £3.70, today minimum wage £5.93 - average price for a loaf of bread is around £1.30 - you do the maths.

10yrs ago exH was bringing home under £1k a month. We had one child, (still in nappies). The only benefit we got was child benefit. Living in the south of England (1 hour north of London - prime commuting land at the time). On that salary we ran a car, ate good quality food, had a holiday, and lived very comfortably. Now - well that just under £1k a month would only just cover the rent, basic bills and food (I've actually just found the exact house we rented on right move !). Nothing extra at all, no leeway, no holiday, no car.

Fact is wags have not increased with the cost of basic living.

and - going back to SAF and I's discussion about housing benefit, we are of course assuming there that the person is eligible for benefit in the first place. Many peple aren't allowed to claim benefits. My exSIL and her DH bought there first house in the UK while still on work visas, they didn't have leave to remain, they were not allowed to claim any benefits if the shit hit the fan. Thankfully for them it didn't, but if it had done after they'd bought their first house they would have been left with no means of escape unless they could sell their house (for a profit).

Of course it's also easy to say that they find out information easily on where to get help if they do qualify, but how do they do that? 7 million households in the UK have no internet access, I rarely watch TV these days, but when I did I don't ever recall (apart from tax credits) seeing any information on how to go a about getting help.

And UK literacy are quite shocking really - these are old figures - but relevant all the same I think (and perhaps shows it's not all Labour's fault )

"In 2001, the former Department for Education and Skills launched the Skills for Life strategy with the aim of helping 2.25 million adults by 2010. Two years later, it established by survey that 75% of the working-age adult population had numeracy skills below the level of a good pass at GCSE and 56% had similar literacy skills."

Now - I have good literacy skills (I know they don't show in my writing/typing ) and have been "in the system" for too long a while now, and even I find some of the information about benefits baffling. You need confidence (and self esteem) to be able to push for information, and that and literacy skills to be able o navigate the system and fill in the forms.

You need hope, confidence, aspirations, good access to services and, sometimes, just a stroke of luck, to get you out of poverty.

I agree secondcoming.
I don't think you could do anything but agree.

'my dad is from that generation and he really does feel lucky and recognise all of this and how hard it is for kids to get started now.'

My father is, too, swallowed. He's 75. He realises that times now are not the same, things are not the same. Imagine that, things not being teh same as they were in the mid-1950s when he was a young man?

So best not to try, eh?

None of what you say is an excuse not to try.

Far too many people accept their lives for what it is without any gumption to change. And one of those reasons is that it is easier to do nothing and live the same lifestyle( or better) you'd get through doing a minimum wage job.

The real reason previous generations got on their bikes was because there was no welfare state willing to give them fag money and a laptop.

It's not rocket science to see that if there is no incentive to get a job, you won't bother.

There is no stigma attached to a life on welfare anymore either in many quarters.

I know, they were terribly lucky to be brought up in two up two downs with 6 sibs and 7 sibs. Two of whom died as infants.

Even luckier to have been dragged out of school by their parentsleft school at 14.

I suppose the REAL bit of luck was when they packed a suitcase each and got on a bus to take then 500 miles from anyone and anything they'd ever known to get work. Where they lived in one rented room for five years working in factories all day and going to night school three nights a week.

I'll remind them of how lucky they were, thanks.

I'm not doubting your parents worked very. very hard btw.

My point is more than peoples' lives happen in particular economic, political and historical circumstances that can't be ignored.

For example, my grandparents worked all the hours sent - at Billingsgate fish market, cleaning and chicken factory - from the ages of 14 to death basically. They caught the end of the Victorian/Edwardian times, so opportunities and rewards were much, much fewer than those born a couple of generations later.

1,000's weren't so lucky though Jogon - you know that don't you???? or obviously you don't....

My parents were one of those lucky group as well, they earned enough to be able to afford to move south, hoping for "better job prospects" for my brother and I >. They left behind many others that had no means to do that (there were no jobs! to work 2 or 3 jobs, certainly no extra cash to invest, and they were already going without. Some simply didn't have the apsirations and the background to be able to do it.

The poverty trap is very real and alive in the UK today - as it always has been.

Of course you could argue that many of those living in "poverty" a generation or 2 again weren't really living in poverty, I mean they'll have had electricity, and running water, maybe only an outside toilet, but it would have been a "toilet" as we know it (we had an outside loo when I was little ), they had free education, free healthcare, the welfare state was already in place...........of course rewind another couple of generations...............

Hey it must be all bull shit - there was no poverty in our parents generation

At a time when housing costs were more in line with income, combined with high interest rates so that savings quickly grew in value.

The post-war generations also benefited massively from improvements in all areas of education, especially for girls.

swallowedafly.

Yes, some of it was house prices ( which is the same for my generation) but most of it was working 2 or 3 jobs, saving, investing, working, saving, going without and working.

Sure it's all been said but I still get steaming angry that we, having started to buy our home after years of scraping by will get nothing whilst I'm out of work - as i am at the moment, dh working p/t, but if we had sat on our arses and stayed as council tenants we would be getting help with rent - how is that fair.

Inflation in property and 'starting out' at a time when housing and living costs were more in line with income. There was also social housing.

There was incredible social mobility in that generation - working class council estate to multiple property owning isn't that unusual. It coincided with the UK's biggest investment in the public sector.

Won't continue with the carefully targeted cuts eg EMA, tuition fees of the current administration.

Baroque - wasn't for thousands a generation ago and still isn't for many today.

Some people get up and grab life by the bollocks regardless of circumstances and some don't.

You can't blame lack of dosh for everything. being poor doesn't stop you doing local volunteer work that you can cycle or walk to. It doesn't stop you knocking on doors to find work or setting up a local cleaning round. it doesn't stop you leafletting or phoning local businesses.

My parents were poor, dirt poor.No qualifications, out of school at 14 , moved 500 miles to find work, went to night school , now minted.

Just had a looked at the CAB website it says

"f you have two homes or you are temporarily away from home, you may be able to get Housing Benefit, depending on the circumstances." - obviously our circumstances didn't meet the "right circumstances definition" .

Jogon - that lack of "hunger" - or aspirration is a part of poverty!

A generation or more ago there was greater poverty, kids without shoes, severe overcrowding, poor education that many had to leave at 14.

And yet many of that generation and that background were driven on to become very successful indeed, Alan sugar, many of our parents.

Today educational opportunities are far greater, social mobility increased. I'd suggest the difference is simply that the poverty for many today simply isn't bad enough to spur them on. I would never want a return to that, no one would. But I do think there is a lack of " hunger" for many today.