Is there such a thing as "severe poverty" in the UK?

Also there are people living here (asylum seekers for example) who aren't allowed to claim benefits or work. Some of them have children.

Whatever did you say usualsuspect?

Maypole- hopefully, some of that money saved from 'scroungers' will be used on evening classes to allow those in your position to learn English.

TSC - of course that 2.5 million is the number claiming JSA............I do occasionaly count in some figures - but am not classed as being out of work either - due to still being on IS.

Of course the fact that I've started to buy the local paper weekly, and check for jobs online, and look at the jobs advertised in shop windows when I'm in town isn't "officla" job seeking. there are many people like me, Single parents, with young children who are about to head off to school later this year who are going to be looking for work - but because they aren't on JSA they're not "out of work".

Last May (2010) there were 670,000 LP's on income support. So I reckon we can safely add at least 1/2 of those on the "actually I am looking for work" list......

i wonder if people who say there is no poverty are actually just insecure in themselves on many different levels?

Welcome to the club, usualsuspect :o.

I would call severe poverty having no bedding, or bed even- just a filthy stained mattress on the floor, that you share with another sibling; no curtains at the window; having just 1 set of school uniform that is ill fitting, and only washed once a week so often grubby, food-covered, stained etc; shoes that are too big, too small, full of holes/sole coming off them; having no books anywhere in the house, no more than a couple of toys either; no access to dental care (because there are no free nhs dentists anywhere within a reasonable radius, and travelling for the whole family to the nearest surgery would be 1/4 of a week's food bill); relying on food parcels from charities, and clothing parcels too when available.

I have seen children living in conditions like these- in the UK, present time.

I wonder where all the jobs woul come from too, and the childcare, and - ouch - are the government ready for the hit they'd take financially for all those people who don't fit the "severaly disabled or with mental health issues" criteria started claiming their tax credits.

Of course - most of them would STILL be entitled to housing benefit and perhaps some council tax benefit as well - there aren't enough higher paying jobs to make sure they don't still need support with that.

Oh - what's that? You say only people who don't work can claim benefits.............damn my mistake............still it would explain the reason for 1.6 million children living in severe poverty....................

"Well said happymumofnone roll on April if had my way everyone would of been sent a letter informing all scroungers that all benefit is being stopped and only those who are severely disbled or have mental health issues and are on medication will be allowed to re apply."

I have to say I'm intrigued by this post though.............so people with MH issues who are on medication can't work? Likewise those with disabilities? I mean, I'm no fant of Stephen Hawking (wouldn't be really - am a Chrsitian ) - but he seems to be doing a pretty good job of working with a disablity, and I've known a lot of people on medication for MH issues who are working. I worked on AD's, exH is now working - but he's also still taking his Abilify (only as a precaution for all that shit happening again - but still under the CMHT too).

niceguy, I have worked in one of the poorest wards in the country. I was amazed at how kids live in this area of London. If you think poverty doesnt exist, please come and visit and I will show you how wrong you are. get a grip.

TSC - I actually meant towards that particular poster

TSC - with regards to your last line - that's an old tune - I remember myself and others singing that line many many times in the past

"we've allowed people to have children without even thinking of how they will support them "

Of course all those people who have lost their jobs, or whose marriages have broken down only had children because they knew the state would support them at some unknown about point in time in the future .

It is of course extremely easy to end up in debt while on benefits, they don't take account of the fact that your child will fall badly in the playground and rip the top of their brand new shoes off - requiring more to be bought, or that your cooker with break and need repairing, or that you don't qualify for housing benefit (beause before going onto benefits you were doing well and had bought a house) and as such are living in your own home, unable to sell it, and repair needs to be done urgently.

Some reports in the last year have estimated that £16 billion in benefits are going unclaimed, I'm not suprised, first of all you need to navigate the system, then you have to make sure you can tick all the right boxes.

Then there's things like the tax credits. While I do know of plenty of cases where someones income has dropped significantly and HRMC have used the current years expected income -it doesn't always happen.They wouldn't for exH and I when we got back together just after the start of the new tax year. He had been in a well paid job (£30k pa), but had lost the job (was fired as he didn't have a TV licence - don't ask ), They worked out our TC's for that year based on his earnings of the previous year (wasn't the full year so irrc it was about £23k). Our "income" on benefits was nothing near that and the difference in tax credits was quite substantial.

Out of that list, only £4400 a year in cash goes to the parent. That makes 366 a month, less than £85 a week to pay all the living costs of one adult and one child.

The majority, if not all, will go on paying all bills and food. Many people spend more than that just on their food bill so you can imagine how little it is for two people.
They would have to severely ration their heating in the winter or go without, any clothes will have to be saved up for or gone without, toys, games, any extras like activities again would have to be free or gone without. Certainly school trips would be out of reach.

Its a very sad way to bring up a child and I would not wish it on anyone.

Well said happymumofnone roll on April if had my way everyone would of been sent a letter informing all scroungers that all benefit is being stopped and only those who are severely disbled or have mental health issues and are on medication will be allowed to re apply.

and the only benefits you can claim is dla , pension and working tax credit

I believe the lib dems have made the tories hold back next time I will be voting torie not lib dems we need and axe taken to the benefits not a pocket knife I believe this area is were the biggest cuts should be 50% is about right to many people will to lay on their backs to have children but not willing to brake their back to pay for them

DH grew up being the "povvo" at his school because his mum, though working, spent all her money on booze. His school shoes were his only shoes, his clothes were second hand/old/scruffy and he was bullied and ridiculed for never having anything. Relative poverty I'm sure, but damaging and horrible nonetheless.

I dislike this term "severe poverty". It's bad enough, without adding more terms, that there is so much similarity between the terms absolute poverty (which does not exist in UK, for which we can all be thankful) and relative poverty (which is probably what is meant here).

Poverty is having no roof over your head, no heat and no food. I would imagine there are very very few children living on the streets with their parents.

"Income Support £3412
Tax Credits £2850
Child Benefit £1055
Total 7317"

Its not just that they get though, HB alone can be worth thousands, FSM, free activities, free laptops, not paying for school activities or trips, free dental/prescriptions. If you add it all up its worth a lot more than many people get for working a full week.

Society only has itself to blame, we've allowed people to have children without even thinking of how they will support them and thousands are now working the bare min since tax credits came in. Perhaps if the new government continue with reforms, benefits will go back to being a short term safety net after a change in circumstances rather than a way of life.

I can understand Niceguy's confusion. I think you can have severe poverty in the Uk if despite the benefits and income you have some additional dysfunction or debt or other strain within the family that means some of the low income is spent on other things than the usual 'basics'

So, for example you have an alcoholic parent who spends said income on booze and so the household bills don't get paid and said child/children don't have adequate funds for clothes etc. This happened to me so I am not being anti-poor. This is a genuine problem for some families.

Or the family on a low income might have borrowed some cash to afford a much needed holiday (which income support etc will not cover as it will only cover the basics ie gas, water rates, elec, petrol, rent, food shop, a little for clothes) and then had to borrow from a dodgy loanster and have to pay back high amounts of repayments on threat of violence or baillif action and therefore this takes a chunk out of their low income and the basics cannot be met.

Or perhaps the parent/s suffer from an illness physically or mentally which means they have additional needs that take moneey out of the pot needed for the basics.

Or a hundred and one other reasons why people's low incomes are drained quite beyond their control and the children end up suffering as a result.

(meant to say under a quarter)

Also, average wage in this country is about £25k, isn't it? Clearly 7k is 1/4 of that. So obviously IS poverty.

'the state gives you more'

Only once you've filled out all the right forms. Which are incredibly complicated. And only if you fit the right boxes. Gets far more difficult if you don't have a regular address, for instance. Which not all families have. And that's just one example.

I think 'not having enough shoes' IS poverty. If a parent can't buy their child new shoes when their feet grow, if the child has holes in their shoes and the parent can't afford a repair. Of if the parent puts up with holes in THEIR shoes because their priority is finding shoes for their child. Try walking to work in a minimum wage job with holes in your shoes, getting your feet wet, and see how you feel.