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Original poster

Well done Gov Scott Walker of Wisconsin!

56 replies

longfingernails · 12/03/2011 02:05

Finally, the venal public sector unions have gotten their just deserts, if only in a small corner of the world.

Gov Walker has shown inspired leadership, and is surely a contender for the GOP Presidential nomination.

We could do with someone of his mettle here - often, Cameron is far too consensual for his own good - not because he lacks steel, but he just has too much of the misguided noblesse oblige sense of "fair play".

Anyway, if Gov Walker continues in this vein, he may one day be spoken of in the same breath as Thatcher and Reagan!

OP posts:
Original poster
longfingernails · 22/03/2011 22:51

No. Whilst not being by any means the reincarnation of Shakespeare, I think even my harshest critics on Mumsnet would acknowledge that I am more articulate than the idiotic Sarah Palin.

I could not have voted Republican in 2008 in good conscience, simply because there was such an dumbo on the ticket. That said, Obama is a disaster for the US. His spendng-on-debt-binge dwarfs even Gordon Brown's. His relinquishing of global US leadership, and together with it, the doctrine of American exceptionalism, should worry all of us in the West. He wants to Europeanise America. A far better solution would be to (partly) Americanise Europe.

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mrsdennisleary · 22/03/2011 17:30

LFN are you Sarah Palin?

slug · 15/03/2011 16:46

Once you remove collective bargaining you open the door (even more) to women being paid less than men for the same job.

majordanjarvis · 15/03/2011 16:37

LutherGravy - bless.

OP - well said, that man!!

Original poster
longfingernails · 14/03/2011 22:58

My prediction: in 5 years (assuming the reforms stay on the State statute books during that period), Wisconsin will have bigger increases in productive, tax-generating private sector employment than the American average.

Meanwhile, union membership will dwindle - both because the unions will no longer have any say whatsoever in any matters of public sector significance, and also because by forcing members to opt-in, rather than the current opt-out arrangements, a large number of people just won't bother. The Democrats will be livid, of course, but public services will become more efficient, with higher calibre workers, and far better public satisfation ratings.

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Original poster
longfingernails · 14/03/2011 22:47

It is in the nature of any functioning democracy that public sector workers cannot be mistreated (according to the public's feelings) for extended periods of time.

If the public feels that lower debts for their grandchildren are more important than a diversity co-ordinator's gold-plated pension, then that is all to the good.

Unions are simply unnecessary in the public sector. However, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the left have so little faith in democracy - they prefer quangos, unaccountable layers of bureaucracy, and thuggish unions.

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TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 14/03/2011 22:33

Cushy perks... like being paid a fair wage? Hmm

I'll assume, given your world view, that you haven't read 'The ragged-trousered philanthropists'?

Back before collective bargaining (or unemployment benefit), you could pay your workers as little as you liked; if they didn't like it, there was some other poor starving bugger who would do the job for the same money - or less.
In fact, people could slave away all hours and still not be able to feed their kids. And if you got ill, it was the workhouse or starvation.

Damn those socialists who came along and changed things, eh? Still, at least Wisconsin's bold enough to take that leap back a century...

LutherGravy · 14/03/2011 22:12

"Thatcher put the Great back into Great Britain. Reagan showed America that the American Dream was alive and more resonant than ever. They won the Cold War, they defeated the union menace, they made their economies prosperous, they were re-elected with ease (in Thatcher's case, again and again)."

Wow... you must have taken even more drugs than I have.

Ordinarily I would try to debate the issues you raise but really, such unutterable tripe deserves nought but insult and ridicule.

Original poster
longfingernails · 14/03/2011 21:54

DillyDaydreaming Thatcher put the Great back into Great Britain. Reagan showed America that the American Dream was alive and more resonant than ever. They won the Cold War, they defeated the union menace, they made their economies prosperous, they were re-elected with ease (in Thatcher's case, again and again).

TheHeathenOfSuburbia Wisconsin has already saved 1500 public sector jobs thanks to the cuts in public sector worker entitlements. If it's a choice between saving jobs or keeping cushy perks, the like of which are unknown in the private sector, I vote for the jobs every time.

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aliceliddell · 14/03/2011 14:24

All those over-unionised, over-protected, bankers. is this why they are so mediocre and incompetent? No! They must have bonusses for doing such sterling work, or all that talent will leave the country. you know, like NHS brain surgeons do if we don't give them £3 million a year. Somehow, they manage to scrape by on about £80k. God only knows how...LFN you are trolling beautifully but are terminally bewildered I fear.

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 14/03/2011 10:27

Just curious, lfn, if Wisconsin now decides to put every teacher on minimum wage with no healthcare, would that be a) a good thing, or b) a bad thing?

Bear in mind how the American economy is struggling at the minute, so your 'market' answer, that they should get jobs elsewhere, doesn't apply.

GlynisIsFixed · 14/03/2011 10:19

Nonsense - no-one should be forced to listen to anyone else, no matter how thuggishly they behave.

Hmm another nail in the coffin for true democracy then?

Blackduck · 14/03/2011 06:43
Hmm LFN you are just a nasty piece of work and and yes people who are crap in the private sector get sacked.....eyes up banking sector.
DillyDaydreaming · 14/03/2011 06:41

I am utterly speechless. Is it really a good thing "to be spoken of in the same breath as Thatcher and Reagan"? Confused

..and it's not just the "crap and mediocre" who rely on unions. Anyone in a large organisation does so to ensure their voice is represented.

Chil1234 · 14/03/2011 06:12

And people educated to degree level and working in white-collar jobs aren't as deserving of protection in employment? In a large organisation, are you seriously suggesting that a competent, degree-educated worker can't be steam-rollered on pay and conditions, just the same as anyone else? Your argument seems to hinge on some silly 'survival of the fittest' idea.... and whilst incompetent staff should be eased out of an organisation legally, just because someone is not in a powerful enough position or doing a stellar enough job to demand better treatment single-handed, it does not make them a fair target for exploitation.

claig · 13/03/2011 20:51

Without unions who would be able to negotiate overtime pay, health and safety etc.? Without unions we'd be back in the days of employers like Scrooge. It's a quid pro quo, employers have rights, but so do employees. Collective bargaining aims to ensure equal rights for employees. It stops employers cherry-picking and treating workers unfairly.

Original poster
longfingernails · 13/03/2011 18:45

Chil1234 You might have a point if public sector union membership wasn't largely made up of degree-level educated white collar workers - especially in America.

The people doing genuinely crap jobs (like rubbish collectors) usually work in the private sector - and those public sector workers with genuinely dangerous jobs (the police and firemen) are rightly exempt from the new legislation.

No, the ones who will suffer are the crap teachers, bureaucrats, and lecturers. All of whom should suffer.

And glasnost, it is somehow evil to want to reward the best workers regardless of seniority, to ensure that unions can't frustrate reforms like charter schools, and in general, to promote prosperity? Don't make me laugh.

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glasnost · 13/03/2011 17:17

OP you are quite evil. I suggest you name change to longclaws or talons.

Chil1234 · 13/03/2011 14:45

A lot of people are not 'crap workers', but they are asked to do 'crap jobs' and often for 'crap money'. They're not in the realms of performance appraisals or '360 feedback' or whatever it is you think everyone gets. They need someone to stick up for them or they will sink without trace.

There are some union bosses - Bob Crow springs to mind - that see their raison d'etre as bringing down capitalism rather than simply getting a fair deal for their members, but if you look at one of the best manufacturing countries in the world i.e. Germany, you'll find that workers' councils and a consensual style of management is not only standard but works very well indeed.

Original poster
longfingernails · 13/03/2011 12:26

It's not good for crap workers.

It is downright awful for them - they will get sacked based on performance, rather than having a get-out based on seniority.

Boo hoo.

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edam · 13/03/2011 12:06

yeah, right... even you must be able to see that 'screwing over the workers is good for the workers' is illogical.

Original poster
longfingernails · 13/03/2011 12:03

Nonsense - no-one should be forced to listen to anyone else, no matter how thuggishly they behave.

On the flip side, of course, everybody should be free to say what they like, unless it endangers others.

Gov Walker's proposals are sensible and measured, and have already saved 1500 public sector jobs.

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Chil1234 · 12/03/2011 16:31

Then that's not bargaining...

Original poster
longfingernails · 12/03/2011 13:18

They still have the right to try to bargain collectively.

It's just that the State of Wisconsin has made the democratic decision not to listen to them when they do so.

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