TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

vouchers? so those people wouldn't be able to purchase goods from the newsagent, unless the newsagent took vouchers and could be bothered to apply for a refund from the gove? how would they catch a bus with a voucher to get to their job interview. how would their children buy a packet of sweeties as a weekly treat? how would you be able to pay for your mobile to arrange your job interview? which supermarkets would take vouchers...one of them, two of them? what if one were not local to you? what if you didnt like their food? what would happen to the supermarket giant compared to the small local shops?

riddiculous, riddiculous, ridiculous.

Glasnost - Well, if you really ARE trying to persuade those that agree with the cuts to agree with you instead, you might well start by being a bit nicer too them. Don't rise to LFN's rhetoric and attempts to polarise.

CoalitionNeedsYou true views are the ones expressed and "conducting yourselves" is inappropriate term for internet forum where communication's restricted to written electronic word so no room for nuance, irony or real communication. As I type this am breastfeeding so how I express myself is conditioned by need for brevity. I'm far from unpleasant and never set out to offend anyone whereas you seem to pick holes in everyone's views. Makes me wonder what YOUR "true views" and motives might be. Ciao 4 now!

Vouchers are a ridiculous idea unworkable that would cost more than they would save to administer.

@Jaquelinehyde "imposed ways of living are not."

That's the problem. People want to the state to give them money but don't want to be told how to spend it.

Well, maybe it's time that that changed. The state gives people money to spend on the necessities - so ensure that happens by giving people vouchers and advice on how to spend them to make the most from them.

Glasnost - I just don't have the arrogance to pretend that I have the answers. I've not 'dissed' anyone's opinions - I just ask them to have rigour in how they express them. There are times when both you and LFN conduct yourselves in ways that seem to be expressly calculated to turn people against the views you are propounding. So you can see how I wonder what the true views of each of you might be.

Exactly, some live the highlife and some don't. So, level it out - appropriate housing (i.e. no 4 beds for single old ladies), vouchers for food, bills, etc. so people can't buy iFondles, booze, fags, etc. with the money. Then everyone gets the same deal.

Jogon. I know it can be anoying when people seem better off that you as they seem to get too much from the state but could you realy live in a country that did not look after the vulnerable when they need it.

Ideally we would have a society where people wanted to work and contribute and those who can't are looked after well by the state. I have always worked and paid crazy amounts for childcare and had all that stress and seen others much more relaxed and apparently as well off as me but not working so I do understand your view.

In my experience genuine advice is always welcomed but imposed ways of living are not.

Jogon under 25's get £51 and over 25's get £65 and just because you know one person who is living the highlife on benefits does not mean that the majority are.

@Jaquelinehyde - ref "internet access"

Not necessarily. I was just pointing out that information is out there and that it can be done. Leaflets with menus and recipes as part of the benefits package - maybe available at job centres, etc.

But then people will say that the Government are telling people what to eat - they can't win. People want independence to do what they want, when they want and how they want because they "deserve it" because they "exist". They don't want to be told what to do or how to do it, but they do want to be given the money to do what they want and how they want.

Abuelita

An interesting post with good impartial links. I recommend the FullFact link - it really cuts through the rhetoric from both political wings.

However, I think you have confused Monetary and Fiscal policy. Monetary policy, which you say the OECD report recommends, is mainly to do with interest rate changes. Fiscal policy is the one which includes spending during a recession.

@moondog - ref "Sit in a small room snivelling to a not very bright woman with large earrings and a Clarks shoes habit and voila!. All your problems will be magically rinsed away."

You clearly have a bad impression of counselling - great, if they provide no benefit - cut them - get rid. Easy. That's the point of cuts.

However, as @wubblybubbly pointed out, it's not all like that - there are good counsellors. And there are bad ones. Get rid of the bad ones - oh no, you can't because they're in the union and everyone's saying no cuts, even for the bad ones.

Counselling can and does help. And there needs to be training to keep and improve counsellors. It's complementary to medicines. But it it shouldn't be immune to appropriate cuts.

Jogon is right that there are plenty of incentives not to work. No party has managed to solve that. Iain Duncan Smith's plan that people will keep to my mind a relatively small amount of what they start to earn if they take a job and come off benefits is notthing like a big enough incentive.

If you get your £20k rent in London paid (new maximum) plus benefits it's pretty hard if you're a minimum wage calibre of person (£13k a year) to make work pay or worth the effort even with tax credits and any other benefits for the lower paid.

"Can everyone remember that LFN is actually a revolutionary socialist, attempting to DISCREDIT the views she pretends to uphold by being as unpleasant as possible.

I'm suspicious that Glasnost might be doing something similar as well...."

coalition(definately doesn't)needsyou please don't align me to mad harpy LFN. I am a revolutionary socialist in fact whereas she is properly rightwing and, indeed, unpleasant. You, on the other hand, seem to have no discernible opinions whatsoever so you resort to dissing everyone else's. Your agenda is to bore us all off politics. At least LFN is entertaining.

Wubbly - I suspect that £25bn figure includes their estimate for corporation tax avoidance. But it's worth noting that compared to other countries, the UK corporation tax take is very high (as a proportion of GDP).

To some extent our high corporation total tax take is due to our favourable corporation tax laws which incentivise companies to invest and grow here. To close the loop-holes you need to remove these incentives.

Also - corporation tax provides less tax revenue than either income tax or NI. Countries try to attract companies in order to increase employment and generate income tax.

Any UK government is going to be reluctant to mess with business incentives.

£65 a week?

Yes, if you are single and under 25 9 I think).

My cousins sister is a single parent on benefits. Lives in a detached 4 bed for nowt - better than my brothers house who works full time as does his wife.

She smokes, runs a four year old car and has an I phone. Her kids have every X box/playstaton etc under the sun. Not to mention free school meals, eye tests and a lap top which she flogged to a mate.

Her Ex pays a few hundred a month so it's not that funding the lifestyle.

She will happily espouse that she will never work as she wouldn't earn enough.

Those of you protesting yesterday who work long hours for ow pay should be protesting against a system that supports this, not cuts to it FGS!

You're welcome Jacqueline. Enjoy the educating!

I was at the march - thousands of people protesting peacefully against the cuts. Critics say there is no alternative to the cuts. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development published a report last week.

www.oecd.org/document/38/0,3746,en_2649_34569_47283558_1_1_1_1,00.htmlthe OECD report. The summary says:

"The government is pursuing a necessary and wide ranging programme of fiscal consolidation and structural reforms."

Every party, not just the government, knows we have to take necessary steps to reduce the deficit. It's the nature of those steps that is causing concern. Yes, the steps are wide-ranging - OECD is stating the obvious, not necessarily giving approval to these wide-ranging steps.

Page 2 of the summary says: "A broad based recovery started in end-2009" (I thought the Labour party were in power then) but the UK "faces significant headwinds during 2011, which can be mitigated by monetary policy remaining supportive" (Question: is the monetary policy being pursued by the government supportive or not?).

Page 2 also says, "Monetary policy should hence remain expansionary...to support the recovery".

Now, I'm not an economist, but I thought an expansionary fiscal policy meant increasing public expenditure. The report also said that the government must tackle "banks that are too big to fail".

Many countries have been in this problem before but none has tried to reduce their deficits by relying so much on cutting public expenditure. The government's policy is a risky experiment - and one that no other government has pursued after a deep recession.

fullfact.org/sites/fullfact.org/files/Full_Fact_The_Economy-The_Big_Question.pdf

Wubbly than-you so much for that link, it's amazing I love it and shall be printing it out, to hand out to ill-educated morons everyday.

Studyinghard - are you suggesting that part of the benefit package is free internet access so that those on the poverty line have access to these sites you mention.

I personally found counselling very effective. However, it's massively underfunded and unlikely to recieve any additional funding any time soon.

@manatee - "too traumatised to find work" - that sounds like there's a need for counselling.

Ah yes, but course of course counselling is the panacea for all of modern society's problems.

Sit in a small room snivelling to a not very bright woman with large earrings and a Clarks shoes habit and voila!. All your problems will be magically rinsed away.

Can everyone remember that LFN is actually a revolutionary socialist, attempting to DISCREDIT the views she pretends to uphold by being as unpleasant as possible.

I'm suspicious that Glasnost might be doing something similar as well....

@manatee - "too traumatised to find work" - that sounds like there's a need for counselling. Support that person with the basics and give that person the counselling, mental support to overcome the trauma.

@wubblybubbly - vouchers, vouchers, vouchers - for food and utilities. There are loads of threads on websites like moneysavingexpert about how to eat well and cheaply.