TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

Maybe the 'providers' won't be so 'willing' to take on parts of the NHS that cost a lot and yield few returns (well, obviously we wouldn't count keeping people alive as any kind of 'return' would we)

Jogon - I am unable to work owing to the fact that I am unable independently to walk, cook, garden, shop, get on a train, etc etc. That's why I use a wheelchair. However, just to reassure you that I'm not squandering that £105 per week, I'm naturally at your disposal to be "sifted" as you so invitingly put it. Please don't concern yourself that I might find this intrusive or patronising in any way; we crips are used to being public property. After all, you've paid for it; you should be able to see what your money's being wasted on.
Oh, sorry, I forgot - did I mention Piss Off? Hope you're not offended by that any more than I am by your post.

I don't think there are many private hospitals that deal with acute care? A&E facilities ie road accidents, heart attacks? Correct me if I am wrong.

studyinghard, why do you think that countries like China and France have free university education? They will outstrip us and the reduced numbers that are willing to take on such huge debt will not be able to compete with other countries in the information age and the knowledge economy. We are deskilling and downsizing, while other countries are investing. It is short-term and the country and all our people will pay the price.

bullet that reminds me of a family friend, an extreme libertarian, whose life was saved by the NHS after a motorbike crash. He was in hospital for months.
A and E, the fire service, the police, unemployment benefit, disability- there but for the grace of god go all of us.

yay bullet!

We pay our taxes into sectors like the NHS because, with the best planning in the world, we can never guarantee that we won't need them. All it takes is a serious accident that requires admission to the nearest hospital (for either ourselves or someone close to us) and I don't think there's anybody on here who'd be saying "no, no, it's ok. Continue on to the private hospital many miles away, I don't want to be a burden on the state."

@claig - the figures are out there for all to see regarding how much people will have to pay back as a percentage of their salary that they achieved by starting their career from a position of quality advanced education.

I remember going to an open day at Southampton Uni when, in the canteen, the tannoy went off every 5 mins announcing yet another protest to go on. It put me off going their - people were following like lemmings because they had nothing better to do. Students protest at anything. Especially if the focus is on them. I've seen that first hand.

If they are intelligent enough to do a degree, they should be intelligent to work out the benefits in the long term.

Glitter i meant your post ages ago about use of the public saector, this thread is moving too quickly for me!!

studyinghard sanity? happiestblonde I don't think you tories are using the same dictionary as I am.

As for opting in to tax, I want any tax I paid that has gone on trident back then, for a start. But it doesn't really work like that, so that's why I haven't gone around yelling about it left, right and centre. But apparently it's OK to complain vociferously about taxes paid that have gone on keeping people healthy and educated.....? Bizarre.

happiest blonde, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the one who claimed you worked for the Conservative party last week while simultaneously lusting after George Osbourne on budget day?

'Stop scaring, start encouraging'

do you think that is what the new fees policy will do? Why do you think so many students protested? They are not stupid, they know it is meant to discourage them.

Glitter exactly! Even the loopiest anti tax libertarian must have once in their lives walked on a pavement!

This post tax, post state, Britain ... I think it would not be the upstandingly moral place imagined by some. More like anarchy, and unequal beyond belief. Still, if the wealthy within it could get over their 'abhorrence' and try a bit of collectivism, they might be able to club together at a local level to buy a new iron security gate to keep everyone else at bay...

i do thing that the degree thing is a bit weird. people are either capable or not of being good at a certain job. you don't need a degree to do most jobs these days yet not having one will mean you earn on average 60% less which is crackers.

@happiestblonde - thank goodness - sanity - thank you.

Yet it can't be seen that investment in additional needs children can lead to less dependence on welfare later?

@claig - These fees will stop many people going to university for fear of getting into debt

Because people keep on scaring them by making out they are going to be broke for the rest of their lives. Stop scaring, start encouraging.

i would like a percentage to pick where i spend my taxes - would really love an 'opt in' system myself

If someone is smart enough to go to university they should be smart enough to see the long term investment of university

Glitter - I have never denied my use of roads, police, national security etc but my use of them is EQUAL to everyone else in the country. However, I have not used state education or the NHS therefore my burden on the tax payer has been vastly less, as has my DCs, yet I pay a far larger chunk than many people who have used these services far more than I have. I do not find this fair. What would be fair would for all of us to pay a set percentage of our income, which would work towards the injustice that those who earn more (thereby contributing more in NI, to the economy, consumption, using fewer public services etc) pay a FAR huger chunk towards the national pot than those who take so, so much

Timmy at McDonalds pays a bit and your DC pay for Timmy's medical treatment. University educated people contribute their knowledge to society and pay back more taxes on higher income. These fees will stop many people going to university for fear of getting into debt. They will reduce the level of education of the country.

echo happiestblonde - totally agree - the fairest deal. those who benefit pay. If someone wants to study a course that they won't take financial career advantage of at a later date, they don't have to pay back a penny. People can still study for studying's sake - of course at the rest of the tax paying public's expense.

adams - i feel that I paid entirely for my degree - including both living costs and tuition fees - despite my parents being able to afford to pay. I now pay back £45 per month more than I would under the new system. DP works in academia and I am trying to move into that field - it needs funding and I think it's better than my DCs (if they go to uni) pay for their degrees rather than Timmy down the road who works at MacDonalds paying for it for them out of his taxes.

re: student taxes. Only really applicable if you earn the money that takes you over thresholds. At the end of the day, things change. I didn't get housing benefit when I was at uni. But my friend's older sister did.

I don't think anyone is a deficit denier.
There are plenty of 'use of public services' deniers out there though.

Never had a state education? Never had a university education? Never, ever used the NHS? Never had refuse collections? Never had their street lit? Never used the public highway? Never used a leisure centre?

The teachers in the private schools, were their degrees obtained privately? Your private doctor better not have trained on the NHS..... I can think of so many examples of this but I'd be typing all night.

Anyone who begrudges their moral responsibility to pay for services used by EVERYONE is utterly disgusting.

I have paid in and I will again. My personal ethic wouldn't allow me to do otherwise. I'm currently saving the state approximately £4k a week in care fees.

Happiestblonde, that's good that you got your uni education, under the new rules you would be paying a lot more in tax for the priviledge, what do you think about that? How do you feel about your DC's having this extra burden on them after the graduate?