TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

Jogon laptops on £65, but of course.....

I sincerely hope none of the above posters who lose sleep over scrounging bloodsuckers like me ever need to claim any benefits for any reason. For one thing you will have contributed to the demise of the Welfare State by your zealous interest in witch-hunting; secondly, the shame and humiliation you will no doubt experience on joining the ranks of the great unwashed will quite likely finish you off. Has it ever occurred to you to fulfil Cameron's wet dream and actually stop some real life tax and benefit fraud? Try researching offshore havens like the Cayman Islands. Not such an easy target as the single mother with the boyfriend who stays over for 3 nights a week, but can still be gratifying. By the way, I don't buy the deserving poor line. I know I'm more to be pitied than blamed, but I don't want pity, I want rights. Not so much "vulnerable" as "livid", to be honest.

You mean cars like the one I use to take my disabled kids to medical appointments? Mobile phones like the one I have with me in case one of my kids is taken ill whilst we're out?

Oh, we've moved onto flufy wuffy foxes now!

page 8 has a table with fraud rate, more is overpaid than lost in fraud

oh my word...wanky con-dems, of course it all fits into place!

Wook, laptops, mobile phones, cars and fags to name but a few .

It was published by the DWP Information Directorate based on the year 2007/2008. But not published til 2009 and I THINK the most recent. here

I wish they would unhappen

@wook - sorry - that was @claig - apologies

Studdyhard

@newwave well done for advocating criminal activity. Go and put through some windows of people's houses who actually get there arse out of bed to earn a living and pay the correct amount of tax as dictated by law.

I wont ask your gender but if the suffragettes (who broke the law) relied on people like you them women still would not have the vote.

As for bricking windows I gave that up when I finished hunt sabbing although they tended to be scum hunters and forelock tugging scum hunt supporters car windows.

the con dems happened.

what suddenly happened to make life into such a fucking competitive wanky race

@glitter - interesting, thanks. politics and stats - the two best tools for bending the truth. But, like I said, I have no problem with genuine DLA claimants claiming what they need.

I didnt say laws didn't have to be abided by...I just wondered why you seem to like speed cameras so, so, so, so much.

studying seriously, what luxuries can be afforded on JSA? What can you possibly be classing as a luxury?

@Xenia - well he might be at Harvard but £24k tax free then a flat rate seems crazy to me.

What I'd like to see is a genuine universal credit - everybody gets some amount per week. No benefit fraud; very cheap to administer. Extra amounts for children / disabled. Then a small band of zero tax - not the £10k the liberals have gone for - because it would be necessary to start reclaiming the credit. But the rate here should be low: as income increases marginal rates should never decrease and at the moment the highest marginal rate is paid by those coming off tax credits. 5% or 10% at most. I would go for a wide band at this rate, then several more bands - replacing current tax + NI system. Certain sorts of income could be treated differently so that pensioners don't end up paying over the top. The top band should definitely be 50%.

Extra allowances such as rewarding private pension payments are ok but should be capped.

There is no question that a carefully thought out new system from first principles would be better than tweaking the current one: the only reason politicians haven't done it is because they are too scared.

As for benefit fraud: amounts are tiny compared to tax evasion (yes I mean the illegal one) and yet tax evaders get a few months in an open prison at worst - usually just have to pay back + a penalty. Women with young children can end up in prison for long periods for benefit fraud. In many ways the crime is morally identical but the tax evaders are punished less for stealing much more from the rest of us.

Of course people will rip off any system if they can - but lets be proportionate about how we deal with it.

studying I don't think I said anything about benefits did I? But since we're on it, I think there is a problem with a) there being so few jobs in many areas b) too many jobs with very low pay, meaning the state basically tops up and provides what the employer should, thereby subsidising both low pay and buy to let property owners. Also c) people claim benefits for different reasons, and quite how being sacked, having a disability or disabled dependents, etc equates to moral weakness or a lazy attitude I don't know. These things (ab and c) mean that randomly going on about people 'on benefits' is unhelpful and ill informed.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that people should get what they "need" from the state.

ooh whilst looking for that 0.5% stat I found this which shows that actually numbers claiming DLA has remained static for 13 years.... I don't think disability benefits are the ones to trim tbh ouch messageboards

@LegoStuckinMyhoover 'allo, 'allo, 'allo. What do we 'ave 'ere then? Banged to rights. No, I'm not in the police - what's wrong with thinking laws should be abided by? Nope, never had to live on benefits. I've been lucky. When I was out of work, I didn't think about claiming, I was 100% on trying to find more work. Had I been out of work longer, then I might have applied for JSA, but I wouldn't expect that to fund me any more than the absolute basics. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that the current rate of benefits is right or wrong - I'm not in the position to be able to say that - and I'm sure it's different for different people with different circumstances, but I do think we should pay no more than the basics to get by - no luxuries. Incentivise people back into work.

@claig the speed camera wouldn't catch the joyrider. But it would pay for the police to catch the f**ker or for the police to investigate and catch the burglar.

Whilst I am looking for that though I do find it telling that the initial benefits cap was exempted from DLA claimants.... and now they're trying to lower the number of DLA claimants... but anyway on with looking for those stats.

studying, are you "on benefits"? Have you tried to live on benefits alone? Or are you a constable?

@newwave well done for advocating criminal activity. Go and put through some windows of people's houses who actually get there arse out of bed to earn a living and pay the correct amount of tax as dictated by law.