Lib dems beaten in to 6th in Barnsley

I don't think he could whether the media wanted him to or not. Murdoch & co are not so powerful they can do an emperor's new clothes on us. (Sky & the Sun are both shit sources of news anyway)

IMO.

I think the so-called deal with Labour was all theatre, it was never for real. John Reid made sure to kill it off in case it had any chance.

I am not saying that Clegg will survive. I think he will be sacrificed, just like Blair was. But, I think he could definitely survive if it was in the interests of the media to spin him out of the mess that he is in. I don't think it will happen, because they can just as easily spin someone else in.

I don't agree that Murdoch potentially getting from the Tories a proportion of what he wanted over Sky would mean that if he chose to back Clegg (as what??? ) at some future date we would all roll over because the Sun said whatever the Sun said.

And in fact Clegg is only "in power" because he, personally, couldn't stand Gordon Brown & so refused at that point to do a deal with Labour - who were always more natural allies politically - even though the vast majority of his party would have preferred Labour. However short-lived such an agreement might have been he would have stuck to his supposed principles, & would be more respected in the country now.

I don't believe he can come back from that - Lib Dem votes will plummet in the next election anyway but with a different leader they might not do quite so badly.

Rupert knows what he wants to do. Blair flew over to Australia to visit him. Rupert gets what Rupert wants, others deliver it for him. Vince Cable said he was declaring war on Murdoch. Tapes were released of him saying that and he had to swiftly resign. Rupert's bid has been approved, I think.

Nick Clegg is in power because nearly all of the media, including the Guardian, played him up. The Guardian went so far as "enthusiastically" backing him.

Ed Miliband was also played up by the media before he took charge of Labour. Now the media have changed their mind about him. But they may always play him up again in the future.

Other way round IMO - very pragmatic, old Rupert - he goes with the flow. He backed them in the first place when it became clear the Tories were going to lose. When their time was up, Murdoch abandoned them.

Brown was never a joke. Clegg is a joke.

The media can do anything, they can make the majority believe anything such as global warming. There was a time when the Sun was pretending that it was turning away from Blair and they started boosting William Hague. It was just for a bargaining position. Blair flew over to see Murdoch and discussions were had. Then the Sun turned on William Hague and printed the baseball cap on backwards etc.

What the press wants, it can get. That's why Campbell and Co. also gave exclusive leads to the Sun and the Times, and Blunkett and Straw always had full page spreads in the Sun. They feared that it was the "Sun wot won it". When Murdoch abandoned Labour, their time was up.

It was the media that boosted Gordon Brown when he was Chancellor and gave him the nickname "Prudence", after which he promptly sold off our gold at a rock bottom price. The media played him up so much that it turned him giddy and he actually believed that he had "saved the world" and that there were only "50 days left to save the planet".

Highly unlikely IMO

I mean he's not even doing a good job of being a "Tory"-in-charge - he's rubbish! He has become a figure of fun - where's his way back from that?

It depends if the media all back him like they did this time. They can perform miracles by "enthusiastically" backing someone.

'Expect Nick Clegg to say exactly that as the next election approaches. He will be very contrite, a "repentent sinner", just like Gordon Brown was over Mrs. Duffy. He will apologise to us, "the bosses" and pledge that his goal is a "fairer society". The Guardian will again back him "enthusiastically", just like they did this time.'

Oh he'll still be LibDem leader then, will he?

When I heard this my first reaction was one of mirth and merriment.

Then I discovered that the BNP had beaten them and I thought "oh shit". There's no way this is good news for anyone.

'A LibDem replacement leader would have to be a plain speaker and we'd need him to spell out in words of one syllable that electing Nick Clegg and getting into bed with the Tories was craven and the king of all blunders.
And he'd need to apologise unreservedly to the students for the party's recent betrayal, AND reiterate the pre-election promise to work towards bringing back free higher education (a promise which, in the parliamentary vote, most of the rank and file LibDem MPs actually did not betray.)'

Expect Nick Clegg to say exactly that as the next election approaches. He will be very contrite, a "repentent sinner", just like Gordon Brown was over Mrs. Duffy. He will apologise to us, "the bosses" and pledge that his goal is a "fairer society". The Guardian will again back him "enthusiastically", just like they did this time.

The problem with lib-dems is that people expected two things from them.

1. To implement policies they set out in their manifesto

2. To keep the Tories in check.

For 1) They ballsed that up royally by not just compromising a bit on tuition fees but doing a complete U turn.

For 2) I suspect, in an attempt to present an united front, they're just appearing like Tory lapdogs.

The Lib Dems, if they had it in them, could have agreed to work with the tories without actually getting in bed with them.

They could have agreed a budget but then used parliament to debate other issues such as NHS changes rather than doing it behind closed doors and coming out of cabinets pretending to be united.

What is parliament for anyway? Why not actually make the policies there instead of it all be party based? Let MPs vote in the interests of their constituents instead of being mere pawns pushed about by party whips.

This is the real lost opportunity and one I am glad to see the lib dems suffering for.

And if we didn't have the Lib Dems in government we would have....?

(a) A minority government made up entirely of the Conservative Party, which would be worse (and which would possibly have deliberately self-destructed already in order to call a general election and try to win it before all the cuts came in).

(b) A Rainbow Coalition made up of Labour and various other parties (Labour-LibDem alone would not have been sufficient numbers). Pulling in different directions, probably chaos. It would have survived thus far, maybe not implementing as many cuts as the Coalition, but aware that it had to something, and do it soon. The frustrations of the clash of idealism and Realpolitik would soon have seen it flounder.

(c) A minority Labour government with Gordon Brown still in charge? Never going to be an option - would struggle to get anything passed and would inevitably be seen as a "lame duck".

All three of those possibilities above would have resulted in another General Election within a year of the last - sounds great to some people, until you realise the parties can't afford it and don't have the stomach for it.

Given the result as it was (and not as you would have liked it to be), what other realistic options were there?

Don't all politicians lie? Just those in higher places get away with it for longer. It's a shame about the Lib Dems, the country needs a left leaning party. Labour is soooo pseudo left and the conservatives are sending us back to the Victorian age.However, as we see in North Africa when power goes to your head....eventually it falls down around you. Poor poor Nick Clegg! Unfortunately, the hard working grass root Lib Dems will be left with nothing before he is.

The LibDems are the enablers of this lousy rotten government. The sooner they are dead in the water the better. I am quite enjoying hearing all of these different LibDem jonnies trying to offload blame on anyone but themselves. Squirming like weasels in a sack.
When you ditch your principles and lie (uni fees) through your teeth as soon as your arse hits the ministerial leather then you deserve a kicking.
Bravo Barnsley.

I think you'll find he took the piss out of the lot of us, swc, not just his constituency.

I think disenchanted Tories are more likely to vote UKIP than Lib Dem.

I agree dotnet but your scenarios are not gonna happen I'm afraid. They'll stick it out and weather the storm only to expire.

Bet they regret giving cuddly Charlie Kennedy the elbow over spurious booze gossip.

We know that UnquietDad but it's still heartening to see the unholy alliance getting a "good kicking".

I think Nick Clegg has killed his party. But there may be a couple of other possibilities...

1. I was thinking this morning how the LibDems are now perceived as Conservatives Lite. This despite the fact that, pre-coalition, they were a left-leaning party.

So, perhaps in the future the LibDems will pick up their votes from disenchanted Conservative voters. They've lost all of their Labour/LibDem waverers, that seems certain. Plus, I'm guessing they've deservedly lost 90% of the student vote.

2. It is just conceivable I suppose that if they can elect a leader who is telly friendly and cuddly and above all, honourable (like Charles Kennedy), - and if that person can convincingly decry the party's recent broken promises - maybe, just maybe, they can scrape their way back into third place.

A LibDem replacement leader would have to be a plain speaker and we'd need him to spell out in words of one syllable that electing Nick Clegg and getting into bed with the Tories was craven and the king of all blunders.

And he'd need to apologise unreservedly to the students for the party's recent betrayal, AND reiterate the pre-election promise to work towards bringing back free higher education (a promise which, in the parliamentary vote, most of the rank and file LibDem MPs actually did not betray.)

Uniquedad That is almost certainlytrue. Which shows what a divided country we are...because the South will probably still vote tory next time.

Do we need a Northern government? cheers "Gabby"

PS the poor seem to be getting a better deal in Scotland and Wales.