Raising money

Niceguy2 I'll make no bones about it, I am socialist, am I a troll too?

Is it really so strange and inconceivable that not everyone is happy to accept the cuts and the attacks on public services, is it inconceivable to you that some us of think Georgie Peorgie and chums are driven by idealogy over empathy, democracy and decency.

but I have to tell you I think your credibility, such as it was, will not recover.

NW had credibility? When? I thought he was just a socialist troll?

Why is it 'nice' to screw the rich?

What have they done to you?

I am a writer. I make stuff up and write it down. It entertains people.

Why do I need to be made to suffer to make a point? And what is the point anyway?

I'm happy to pay my taxes (well I groan in January like everyone else) as I can see they're necessary to keep the country going and protect the vulnerable.

But why use taxes as a tool to beat me with?

I just don't get that at all.

NEWWAVE CAN YOU HEAR US LOVE???????????

I know I keep banging on about the Laffer curve. It's a very simple & easy to understand concept unless you have your fingers in your ears and go "la la la I'm not listening"

I thought Denis Healy was long gone..evidently not.

The rich will go and live elsewhere, so there will be less money to redistribute, and then the middle earners will be squeezed even more. You said somewhere on another thread NW that you had a joint income of around £90k - you are getting close to being 'rich' in that scenario.

So it's more important to make the rich hurt than to provide services to the poor?

newwave - if the purpose of taxation is to raise money to pay for government expenditure, then we should tax in the way that raises the most money.

Which isn't taxing the rich until the pips squeak.

Taxing the rich more is always tempting but history shows us it is inefficient.

Certainly increasing income tax to 50% and removing the personal allowances of high earners has had a negligble effect upon the current situation.

I suspect we're going to have to look at one of our most precious eggs...the NHS, state education, the welfare state...and make some huge and unpopular changes.

southeastastra- the issue with that is that only people who can afford not to get paid for 5 years would go into politics- i.e. it becomes the preserve of the trustafarian/ those with a private income or those who have made a lot of money before entering politics.

QBS- but charging for education/health on a sliding scale is taxing the rich more. They've already paid for these services through 50% tax. There is a lot of hoo-ha about these rich tax avoiders but they are actually few and far between. Anyone who is resident in the UK and employed (i.e. most people) and are rich, pay their 50%. The loopholes mainly concern people who are either not UK citizens, are Non-doms or at least non-residents.

At the moment the top 1% of earners account for 25% of the total income tax take. Arguably, the issue is not that the rich are not taxed enough, but that there is too big a gap between the rich and the poor in terms of income. Now you could argue that redistribution is the best way of going about closing this gap but then you're aiming your big guns at the people most likely to go somewhere else. We hear a lot on these threads about "oh well if all these bankers leave, good riddance" but actually, the UK cant afford them to or the income tax take will drop by about 15%.

I wouldn't tax the rich more, some honest wealthy pay 50%, just as they should, others find elaberate ways to tax dodge. We need to ensure tax dodgers pay what they owe.

I would charge for health care and education. On a sliding scale. So people earning over a certain amount would be expected to contribute directly for the services they use.

My reason, well I know plenty of fairly wealthy people too stingy to pay for pre-prep but happy to pay for private post 11. I also know of others who make use of NHS GP's, dentists etc, but que jump when it suits them to get procedures done quickly, often in the same hospital under the same consultant.

One women even told me she went private at the local hospital because she hated sitting in the waiting room! probably couldn't stand be surrounded by proles.

I would also take away the charity status of private schools.

i watched something the other day, where someone suggested paying elected politicians after five years or so office - hence they would have to stick to promises made before they were elected.

made perfect sense - politicians just blatently lie and yet get away with it, it's so corrupt

Put a stop immediately to the nonsense of unpaid 'internships'. I've only just cottoned on to this and I'm appalled. Slavery was abolished in the UK in 1807, supposedly. What a sick society that people are starting to take financial advantage of the young and green and broke.

A little more money will go into the economy if those people exploiting new graduates etc with unpaid internships would put their bloody hands in their pockets and pay them wages, so the new staff in their turn have money to spend.
I know this is a miniscule aspect of the problem, but it's an example of the rich exploiting the poor and it sickens me.

It's interesting too, that no one seems to have noticed there may well be a link between the shrinking of our economy under George Osborne's 'safe' stewardship and the enormous debts bearing down on 2012's students. The link being, parents want what's best for their kids. Most parents don't want their children made into debtors before they've even secured their first job.

It's my guess that parents of kids coming up for university in 2012 and later are squirrelling money away like mad so as to lessen the financial pain for their kids. Most parents of students are decent and see their role as stepping in to make their kids' situation as close now as it can be to the situation as it was when they themselves went to college - ie (financial)worry free.

You can't spend money on yourself or your house or your holidays when you know there's a big personal debt looming for loved ones facing an uncertain future.

A tiny money saving/raising idea...

How about a national scheme (ie government funded) incentivising employees to come up with money saving/waste cutting ideas at work - I'm thinking small prizes for people's ideas which are implemented... the money expended on the 'prize' fund would be a tiny fraction as compared to the savings made from feasible ideas put into practice.

complimentary - yes I know. What is your point?

thecoalitionneedsyou. Companies pay Indian call centre workers less. that's why they are set up in India.

Coalition- no, but productivity per man in Japan/Germany is higher so labour cost per car is lower......but I guess the failure to mechanise and de-man when we had the chance (sacrifice 5 jobs to save 5, rather than keep 10 for 5 years and then lose them all forever) is a whole different issue.

We have the worst of both worlds- relatively high labour costs and relatively old/ labour intensive plant. You can succeed with one but not both.

Bored with more tax as the solution to everything.

(Newwave - "Atlas Shrugged" is soon to be released as a movie, I shall be going to see it, hope it is true to the book)

Check out the LAffer Curve for reasons why more taxation is not the answer to anything much.

And also, start looking for the phrase "Galtian strike", you will see it more and more. Remember you heard it here first girls & boys - essentially people stop producing when taxation gets beyond a joke.

My car was made in Germany, which is not a low wage country.