The Welfare Reform Bill

I don't get benefits, it will be a drastic reduction in my children's lifestyle to have that csa taxed. There was ea with their father, they need to live.

well csa they given up on ds1 and ds2 dad and the younger two second we split he went on to incapcity benefit and there he has stayed as apparentley he cant work ( cough bullsh**) but hey well enough for him and his new gf tobe having a child

Whilst the CSA tax is unlikely to affect anyone given their success rate, I'm rather in favor because they have excluded maintenance from benefits deductions - does that sentence make sense ?? so more women will be inclined to make their ex partners pay on the basis that there is now something in it for them as opposed to every penny being deducted from their benefits and if the AP was unreliable it was better not to even rock the boat and ask him for payments.

sorry did you say Dla has now been abolished for adults from what date?.Am thinking of friends hubby as he is full time wheelchair user and is slowly losing strength in his arms to as has for of MD and i know without the dla they will struggle

As so will we when they start looking at dc claims

Georgeorwell. Why on earth did you pick that name. By the sound of your posts you're all in favour of the thought police.

Xenaphobia is a nonsense word. Phobia is an irrational fear of something. I'm sure adam does not run down the street screaming when she sees a foreigner! He/she is merely making observations and if they use the word swarm so what! Who are you to police people's language?

So what is your grandfather was Romanian, do you want a medal? Talking of medals my Irish father had plenty, as he was a teenager in WW2, in the RAF. Half my husband's family are muslims.

Should I not remark on immigration? Islam? Sinn Fein? Or any area that I fear may be read by the above on MN?

You can in my opinion deviate from any norm you like. But in the same token don't try to drive people off here, because you don't like there terminology.

good, look forward to more of your posts.

There's not one rule for the goose and one for the gander, Labour have been defeated.

adam prob hid thread as was a bit shame faced at the xenophobic language she used yesterday.

civil discussion is great. that's exactly why i objected to her comments re. eastern europeans as my grandfather was romanian and dared made his home in the great uk in order to flee persecution.

but obv there's one rule for the goose and one for the gander on here. i'm not one to hold a grudge tho so will be back.

adamschic didn't find you calling her an idiot a joke, so it's not alright. She has now hidden the thread. Fortunately, complimentary had the courage to stand up for adamschic. We're not in a militant meeting, we're part of a civil discussion forum.

I don't make personal attacks on people. I don't call anyone an idiot, because I don't think anyone is an idiot.

adamschic didn't attack any immigrant mum. Hardly anyone does support an upright Tory view on here, they can't help it if they are wrong. It's not anathema to be anti-Tory, but it is anathema to be rude and abusive to individual posters. Carry on posting your anti-Tory views, but please try not to insult posters who disagree with you.

oh and i called adam an idiot as a joke too just as you called what i wrote yesterday claptrap and garbage. so that's alright then isn't it? or do you get to decide what's funny and what isn't?

intimidated??????? if you can't take the heat. any immigrant mums surfing the site could have been intimidated by adam's language. what do you think about that??

as i said any opinion deviating from the uptight xenophobic tory/new labour worldview seems to be anathema here. and bullying is what you're doing claig. you've prob scared off anyone daring to disagree with you.

No, I said "communist claptrap and Gramsci garbage". It was a joke. I didn't call you an idiot, as you so nastily called adamschic.

'yah boo sucks! at least there's more space in the playground now.'

MN isn't a playground, it's not about tough shit and yah boo sucks. It's about respect and tolerance. adamschic, a Labour supporter, has had to hide the thread. That's a shame, nobody should be intimidated from posting by bullies.

abusive bullying is likening immigrants to insects by implication (swarms). saying that i spout "claptrap" and "garbage" etc as claig has said on another thread. claig and comp (sounds like a "last of the summer wine" character) seem to think they've a god given right to shoot down in flames anyone who deviates from their narrow, uptight tory worldview. prob in a bid to make MN v. boring.

tough shit i'll express my opinions just as you do and adam IS an idiot to use inflammatory language like that.

so yah boo sucks to you too

'"people are very rarely motivated by money"

I think that's a naive view because money is a very important part of the equation

There's adifference betweem being motivated by security and by money; benefiys doesn't count security IMO as we are only ever one general election away from it potentially being removed.

I am motivated by security. Hugely.

But for ds3 who will never work and potentially any of the others who might possibly become a carer depending on their own lives etc, I also recognise that independence is not only non-choice absed for many, it is a luxury some cannot obtain without immense sacrifice- I could work and be independent now rather than in a year or two but I could not take teh sacrifice (and absolute cruelty) of placing ds1 and ds3 in a residential setting.

Interesting about tax on CSA- givem that the top % of earners don;t access it anyway: friend's H refusing to pay maintenance as he cannot afford it (!!!) and his income is above the £2k per week limit for CSA so she has to get a court order. Will people paying maintenance via courts be taxed if CSA is I wonder? It would include most, if not all, MP types.

I dont know what the chances are of some alterations as the bill goes through Parliament.

(can Dave see the wood for the trees? )

I think channel 4 tv did a fierce interview with a minister. (Thursday)

Some radio stations seemed afraid of IDS in interview. (Govt does fix the license fee, I suppose)

The last two posts give some useful onformation.

On phone-ins it was the disabled and young mums who seems very worried. (Fogarty on BBC 5-Live)

Newsnight had a pedantic thing about
AV voting. (Not like them)

Part of the Welfare reform bill is a tax on child maintenance payments!

Some of you will already know that the Gvnt is currently consulting on its proposal to charge parents for the use of the Child Support Agency (CSA). This means that it will deduct up to 12% from the monthly child maintenance payment that you currently receive if you continue to use their service. This means an average of £24.00 will be deducted directly from you child(ren)s maintenance each and every month.

You can read the Gvnts consultation paper and respond directly at
www.dwp.gov.uk/consultations/2011/strengthening-families.shtml

You can say NO to a tax on child maintenance by signing an online petition at

www.ipetitions.com/petition/taxingkids/
Please sign the petition and encourage others to sign too!

agree entirely, complimentary. Everybody has a right to have a say on MN. We all have different views and beliefs, and we should all accept different views without resorting to abusive bullying.

georgeorwell. it as I've said always best to avoid abusive language as you used to adamsic IMO he has every right to question why so many europeans are employed in local jobs, and I think in part he answers his own question.

1. This country is part of the EU even if we wanted to we can't just employ British workers. WE always stick to EU rules and employ people from EU countries unlike Spain and other countries. Just visit the coastline of Spain/Italy and most people employed are SPANISH/ITALIAN. NOT OTHER EUROPEANS. Also most europeans speak English this gives them a distinct advantage. Most are young and can afford to live six to a house or in cramped conditions. British people cannot survive like this, particularl in places like London. WE are the indigenious people so we have families freinds and are not so transient as say a young Polish man.

2)While employers in adamsic's area are paying low wages, they will not be employing British people. While it's easier to employ foreingers employers will do this.

3. Employers need to pay proper wages, to encourage British people young or old to apply for jobs. British people need to change their attitude to work. Jamie Oliver says we have produced a nation of wimps and I agree with that. Get of your arses British people, show you are more than capable of doing a job now occupied by an Eastern European!

4. The previous Government was very happy to have Mass Immigration either from the EU or outside it. It kept it's business freinds companies alive, by employing foreigners on low wages. It also gave the V sign to the Tories. All at the expense of the British worker.

5. Not employing British people white/black or any other colour drives people into the arms of the far right parties. The young become disenfranchised from the political process by years of unemployment, and see an escape route through the BNP or other parties.
   The EU has another 8 succession countries that wish to join the EU, it amounts to anothe 172 million people in the EU, if a fraction came here you would look at millions seeking work in Britain. If adamsic is worried about jobs now, he/she has seen nothing yet

Also the constant denigration or Britian's culture and it's inability to break the yolk of political correctness, angers many people.This also has an impact on the parties these people will join.

The government must find ways of employing British people otherwise they are treading a very dangerous path, which we will all pay for.

adamsic you are quite right to bring this area up.

yah boo sucks! at least there's more space in the playground now.

George, I used to work in the industry that employed 'eastern europeans' I don't know if you read what I said which was that I didn't blame my previous employers because they got hard working, educated and reliable employees.

They have every right to make Britain their home if they so wish. I never said anything to the contrary.

It's you that's an idiot and an ignorant one at that so do f--k off and that's the first time I've said that to anyone in 5 years of posting on mumsnet. But am happy to say it to someone who comes onto a thread to make a personal attack and doesn't even have the brains to read what I said. (Hiding thread now)

"people are very rarely motivated by money"

I think that's a naive view because money is a very important part of the equation. You don't have to look too far around these boards before you find someone who says 'it's not worth me going back to work'. Which means they've done the maths and worked out that they are better off financially by not working - either because of child-care costs or because the benefits lost won't be made up by the salary gained.

The Welfare State was built on the assumption that people were motivated more by the idea of being independent i.e. being in any kind of work, than they were by the money. This has been proved to be untrue in too many cases.

I abhor the tories and what they are doing.But what I can never understand is how a lot of the polish/czech builders I have used over the years have not necessarily been cheaper but they don't demand cash give all the receipts and do the job thoroughly and to a good standard without disappearing for hours on end and getting nasty when challenged.I have been ripped off by uk builders too.I know this is not all btw I have a brilliant electrician and plumber and they are mortified by some of the attitudes they see themselves and both are using foreign labourers as they are too sick of the attitude of some of the british guys.I would love to employ local but it is very hard when they charge a fortune and want cash!

adamschic you are an idiot. i'd employ a johnny foreigner over an idigenous ignoramus like you any day.

oh and the british are also europeans dontcha know.

and how dare they get pregnant and make a life for themselves "over here". personally, i'd stick them in concentration camps to be let out only to skivvy for peanuts and sterilise them.

A lot of people don't employ locals because they can't exploit them the way the do the migrant workers.

Just thought I would add that whilst I am not a business owner I worked for a largish hospitality employer for several years who often offered positions to people from abroad before they had travelled over. I don't blame them, many were highly educated and professional. However, it is quite unique for us to order lunch and a drink and be served by a someone with an english accent.

Think I should shut up as I sound unpleasant, really am not, just stating a fact. I do live in a predominately tourist area.