How very Tory

oh you lot are amusing. at least claig and comp have a sense of humour unlike frankenstein's Br1de*

will always associate the mail with a woman i saw on the tube reading it who farted dramatically then stared and tutted at the black bloke opposite pretending it was him.

But Bilbo Baggins was a Conservative. If Vlad the Impaler were around today, the Socialist International would probably give him honorary membership. In fact, some say that he was part of the New Labour project.

Mubarak could call himself Bilbo Baggins for all I care, Claig.

Eh? Guardian/Daily Mail, working class/middle class? Thought this thread was about greedy corrupt politicians.

Thanks for bringing this up, Newwave. This sort of thing has to be constantly in the news so that politicians of all parties understand that it is unacceptable, even if they consider it to be within the rules. We're watching them, and holding them to account - and we should never get so immune to it that it doesn't matter. It's our money - the money that we'd like to go into the mouths of single-parent families - that they are stealing!

This is where the DM and the Guardian can find common ground, surely. Let's hope they keep reporting it.

I haven't been following the Mubarak situation too closely. But it just occurred to me, I bet Mubarak is another socialist.

Just googled it, and wouldn't you know, that he is a socialist, a member of the Socialist International. The Socialist International has just sent him a letter expelling him from the organization. It took them long enough, he has been a member for years.

www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/02/04/socialist-international-kicks-out-mubarak.aspx

No fish and chip shops? Do you live in Islington, home of the leading champagne socialist Guardianistas?

Have a nice day.

Claig. They are not left over with 5 copies of the Guardian, that's how many they order!

Oh please Claig, we don't have 'fish and chip shops' around here! Far to working class, this bunch would be up in arms if anything like that appeared on their doorstep. Around here it's over priced cafes!

Must go and pop out for my copy of the Sun, now that really is a fast selling paper!
Have a nice day.

'Anyway times are hard at the Newsagents and they need to sell all the copies that they have ordered of the Guardian! If I send george one, there will be four left to sell'

something tells me the newsagent will have to close shop soon, if they keep over ordering the Guardian. What do they do with the 5 copies that are always left over at the end of the day? Do they offer them to the fish and chip shop next door for free?

georgeorwell. If you are working class, I'm very surprised you even look at the Guardian.

Claig. I couldn't send georgeorwell the Daily Mail he wouldn't understand it, or george would be frothing at the mouth at it's populace views!

Anyway times are hard at the Newsagents and they need to sell all the copies that they have ordered of the Guardian! If I send george one, there will be four left to sell!

Oh by the way I couldn't care less what you are middle class,working class, upper class. All people to me. I just cannot stand hypocrisy, and there's plenty about in lefty,liberal households.

All the three major parties are hypocrites. They continually tell the people of this country one thing then do the opposite. Or try to convince the working classes that their shite policies are good for them, and also try to blind them with words, to illustrate the goodness of these schemes. As georgeorwell points out, perhaps some of them cannot understand the terminology used to support these policies in the Guardian.
Does this make the working class persons' views less important?
Governments' have IMO also preached one thing while doing another.
'Send your children to the shite state school down the road, I'm moving to get my little Johnny in a 'good' 'outstanding state school'. Or even better I will send him private, (hope no one finds out...).

At least Cameron is trying to roll back the big brother state, not fast enough for me. He is also a hypocrite, but you can't have it all!

You accuse people of being bi-polar, which somehow suggests they move from one extreme mental state to another when they talk about politics.

Perhaps you mean 'polarised'? Do you mean that people are either very firmly left- or right- wing, and view others as being the same? That's not the same thing as bi-polar.

Funnily enough you'd never find a copy-editing mistake like that in the Mail. Their subs are pretty good.

It looks like we are all in full agreement about the Guardian. We're all in it together. Complimentary, could you please send georgeorwell a copy of the Daily Mail, if there are any left in the newsagents, as they do tend to fly off the shelves. Quentin Letts is very good.

comp don't read it - only charlie brooker's bits

meant i agreed with claig's last posting

i agree totally. that's why i use the great man's name on here and not georgegalloway frinstance.

and orwell became disillusioned with the socalled communists after his experiences in the spanish civil war where he witnessed the so called comm's being ordered to turn weapons on the antifascists who wouldn't tow their line.

in fact, orwell was antifascist in the most literal sense of the term.

Georgeorwell. The other reason I believe this to be a paper truly worthy of contempt is the following. 'Though it has balked at the governments attacks on civil liberties, the Guardian pioneered New Labour's caring
authoritarianism it was the Guardian that first made the case for greater control of our private lives and opinions.
httplists.fahamu.org

It supported Blair and his big brother army of ministers, in controlling the people of this country. Contempt is to soft a word for this paper!

'i understand you believe people to be inherently self serving therefore you distrust anyone purporting to serve the greater good'

I don't think that you and millions of other new Labour supporters and far left supporters are self serving, but I do think that the leaders of these movements are self serving. You only have to look at history to realise that. look what has happened in the past. What they say is not what they mean. George Orwell showed that when he highlighted Big Brother's use of the newspeak language. He knew what these revolutionary leaders were really like, he didn't fall for their lies

"War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength'.

hitler was insane as was mussolini so their schizoid confusion re. politics isn't so bizarre. mussolini was a socialist initially btw and his paper was called "avanti!". some of the most rabid supporters of berlusconi are ex communists/socialists but anyone can profess to be something in callow youth just to rebel.

i, too, can't stand the frauds and i can sniff them out at meetings i go to and give them a wide berth.

i understand you believe people to be inherently self serving therefore you distrust anyone purporting to serve the greater good. we'll haveto differ on that. still stimulating debating though and have already stated elsewhere i prefer a genuine tory to an ambiguous pseudo new labour type any day.

I know you hate New Labour, because you are out on the far left. But you think that New Labour are better than the Conservatives. I don't think that, that's why I mention New Labour.

Hitler was a socialist, a national socialist. Mosley was a Labour MP. Mussolini was a young communist, who edited a communist newspaper.

I am a Conservative, I am against all of these frauds who want revolution. I don't want leftwing frauds to have a revolution and achieve their real goal of imposing a totalitarian regime, as descibed by George Orwell in 'Animal Farm'.

i hate new labour claig it's weird you've not twigged that by now so don't think you're gonna surpise me by asserting new labour are machiavellian. i know already. and i get the impression you've been hugely disappointed by peolpe on the left. we're not all the same. there're good and bad just like in any walk of life. it's like blaming you for hitler, mussolini, pinochet, george w etc. actually.come to think of it....

and Abr1de if you don't get the context of my use of bipolar can't be bothered to explain, frankly. stop clutching at straws just because you haven't got any real arguments.

'and look what happened to Winston Smith. (reread 1984 if his name doesn't ring any bells).'

I'd be somewhat stunned if Claig hadn't picked up that reference. Oh wait, it's only the Left that's well-read, sorry, forgot.

'a new labour supporter or groniad reader. quit with the bipolarisms!'

You keep using 'bi polar' on this thread. I wonder why you think it is appropriate. I'm not being PC, btw.

I am middle class, but my parents and grandparents came from working class backgrounds. I'm not an admirer of Gramsci, because I am an admirer of the truth.

If you want an admirer of Machiavelli, then look no further than New Labour. Blair's ex-chief of staff, has just written a book all about it, "The New Machiavelli - How to Wield Power in the ModernWorld"

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/8111147/The-New-Machiavelli-How-toWield-Power-in-the-ModernWorld-by-Jonathan-Powell.html

You may well be working class, but you and the supporters of the "imminent revolution" are in a minority among the working class, because the working class doesn't trust the frauds who want the revolution, they know that they are only in it for themselves.