Does Cameron's "Big Society"....

Agree.

Did you read Eleison's link earlier in this thread? Brilliant - very informative.

Cristina - it was the today programme (yesterday).

I don't think that the Coalition is saying that all public services will be run unpaid and by volunteers.

They might see scope for less essential services going to this model (e.g libraries and swimming pools - which might have closed otherwise).

But certainly more services will be delivered by non state organisation funded by the state.

And yes, this was happening anyway.

jackstarb - non state organisations have received state funding for delivering services. They weren't run completely unpaid and on a volunteer basis. I think I might have listened to the same radio programme, BTW :)

SWC - it is widely accepted in the real world (outside MN) that some public services are better delivered by non state organisations (even Polly Toynbee admitted it on R4 recently). .

As I've posted earlier - the Big Society is based on ideas which have been around for many years. Even if it's not the success Cameron hopes - it's here to stay, I suspect.

The 'volunteer' aspect is actually a smaller part than posts on here would indicate.

The point about Wakefield was that he was being paid money from a small charity and his work afterwards involved a small private enterprise. Naive to assume it's all black and white and state is bad and charity and private companies are good. Just out of interest, on what approaches in autism is the state spending millions?

Thanks, GeorgeO. I haven't been to a NC concert in too long.

smallwhitecat don't bandy about terms such as "persecution complex" when it was actually you who initiated the defensive vibe. but as an evident free marketeer and/or right winger you've prob quite alot to be defensive about.

just thought i'd leap to your defence cristina seeing as your a fellow nick cave fan! (just joshing)

SWC - I don't know about your area of interest in autism. I could equally say that faith in charities and small private companies can be naive and misplaced. See the Andrew Wakefield scandal. BTW it's your tone that you need to see to...

Daily Mail doing a sterling job of bringing this scandal out in the open. (to the public).

Old people being mistreated on hospital wards? IMO this is nothing new. When I worked with the elderly years ago as a social worker, the elderly weren't treated well then. Some of the geri wards smelled of -piss, wee. Some elderly ladies not given nightdresses and having open gowns to wear (showing all of the back of them to the 'gentlemen' on the mixed wards!) sometimes the bar on the bed was not put up and an old person would fall out of bed, injuring themselves etc. This treatment of the elderly has been going on for years.

Sadly.

Yes, I agree with you, a bunch of volunteers is like putting a bandaid on a broken leg. We all deserve better than that.

claig - that is scandalous about the experience of some old people in hospitals. The solution though isn't to send in a bunch of volunteers.

GeorgeO - yes, it's from a Nick Cave song :)

SWC - I don't answer for 'most of those on the left'. It's not sneery to say that volunteers can dish out the Daily Mail but not medication. You can't cut services and rely on others' goodwill and charity to make up the shortfall. It's not the Victorian era.

hitchens has cancer, yes. and don't confound yer trotskyism with yer marxism.

cristina love the name. is that an homage to nick cave? sorry, gone a bit off topic.

The truth about all matters of state.

Are you saying that it isn't a scandal that old people have been dying due to not being fed and due to dehydration? I don't think these things are reported enough.

Because scandal sells. Not so much the whole Andrew wakefield thing, that wasn't quite as widely reported, although you'd have thought it had the right ingredients.

Claig - the truth about doctors being paid millions and wards being staffed by forreners?

Cristina, why do you think we get some of these hospital scandals that we read about today in the paper?

I would have thought Labour would have banned the Daily Mail from hospital wards to stop the truth getting out.

I agree, this volunteering is a downgrading of the professionalism required to do important jobs. It will lead to a worse service for many people.

Also, if it's a job that needs doing, why should it not be paid? It's not just a nice extra like having your Daily Mail delivered to your bedside. (Maybe 'nice' isn't correct in the context of the DM.)

Amother - one of the hospitals I worked in they had just started to implement the supervision by a nurse of the handing out of meals by catering staff. Because some patients were receiving food when they were pre-op and should have been nil by mouth, or were on water restriction etc. I can't see the common sense of some volunteer going round the ward with tea and coffee happening. I'm sure on some wards it could happen, e.g. post-natal, but I haven't seen it yet.