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Politics

Sure Start and communty midwife groups being shut down

81 replies

mockingbird1 · 27/01/2011 19:41

If Sure Start centres and local childrens centres run by community midwifes are being shut down at the end of March what on earth are new mums going to do and how are they supposed to meet other mums in their areas? I have started going to some local baby groups and they have been a lifeline for me- without these facilities surely the levels of post natal depression will rise, or is this a sympton of decisions being made yet again by men who have never sat in the house day after day with no-one but a small baby to look at... Health visitors are already over stretched and GPs are not intersted in having a chat so it can get pretty lonely as a new mum. Surely I am not alone in being worried about this? Or do the government have an alternative plan that I dont know about- if so can someone fill me in please!

OP posts:
moondog · 28/01/2011 17:42

Well it's gratifying to see you add weight to your views.

Frank Field is a great man, as is IDS.
Key issue is how to remedy problems in a cost effective way and without nannying and patronising people.

I was a Sure Start director for many years.
Great peopel, noble ideas but did it make a idfference?
I don't think so. It just created more dependency.

mylifewithstrangers · 28/01/2011 17:26

Well I'm sure Frank Field's report is not without substantial basis, despite it being govt comissioned.

And how about this research for starters (though no doubt you will object to it being a Scottish Govt study)

To save you time the key findings were:

> The short term savings from investing in early years services and support from pre-birth to aged five could be up to <strong>£37,400 a year per child in the most severe cases</strong> - children who have complex health and social care needs, and approximately <strong>£5,100 a year for a child with moderate health and social care needs</strong>.
> The potential medium term savings, if interventions from pre-birth to eight are 100 per cent effective, could be up to £131 million a year across Scotland, while in the long term, <strong>failure to effectively intervene to address the complex needs of a child in early life could result in a nine fold increase in costs to the public purse</strong>.
> A package of effective early years support to reduce the frequency and type of services demanded by children with the most severe needs could have a <strong>significant impact on improving outcomes for them and reducing long term costs to the public purse</strong>. If earlier, effective support could be given to a child with the most severe needs, resulting in a 10 per cent reduction in the total amount paid out to cover services later in life, <strong>this could result in a potential savings of around £94,000 for each individual</strong>.

And how about the conclusions of the EPPE study (Effective Provision of Pre-School Education Project). Here is a link to the main findings of the original study

Also you could do worse that looking here with the National evaluation of Sure Start by Birkbeck college. Plenty of analysis and evaluation there of early interventions, including reasons why Sure Start may not be working so well.

I'm no big advocate of the nanny state TBH, but it does seem sensible to me that intervening at a point where children are developing and at their most impressionable you can go some way to preventing a need to intervene with them at a later stage. The fractured nature of our society also means that many more people are living without close family or community support - this is a terrible thing, and we need to address it in some way. I'm not saying this HAS to come from central government, more localised and grass roots support would probably be preferable. How to ensure it is available for those who most need it, and that it is of sufficient quality to achieve the desired aims?

Oh, and yes not doubt we managed before sure start, but as at least one other poster pointed society also offered support in a different way too - extended family etc. Futher back it also consigned failing families to workhouses too - shall we go back to that way of doing things?

moondog · 28/01/2011 14:50

My local Sure start runs

'Feelings and wishes groups for children who have witnessed domestic violence.'

Jesus, that is all the evidence we need to show they are a completely self indulgent waste of time.

What absolute bollocks.

moondog · 28/01/2011 14:48

You implied it Mylife

'It has been shown that intervention in the early years (i.e surestart territory) is paid back a thousand times in lower rates of offending, better schooling and employment prospects etc.'

So..show us where please.

ninani · 28/01/2011 13:46

I too don't understand why new mums have to socialise/educate their children in early years by themselves when the elderly somehow have "nobody". What happened to their children or nephews etc? Don't they don't care anymore? I blame the new generation too who put up with their children's whims but are not willing to do the same for the elderly and leave them alone living miles away. Nobody is better and society should care about everyone. I have never used sure start but I feel sorry for people who have the need for it and I support it like any other group, whatever the age.

These divide politics have succeeded as I can see. "My funding is cut? Why not theirs?? grrrr..".

P.S. If people survived before sure start then sure, they also survived even before without pensions with their children helping out, co-living with them etc. If there is one roll back why not go all the way back with everything (which must be Mr Cameron's dream about his "big-society" )

mamatomany · 28/01/2011 11:03

Worzsel - my mum is a hairdresser who offers her service for free and gives free trims and blow dries to young women who come into the homeless centre and SS she helps out in.
If my mum gives them a haircut for free that's an extra £20 in their pockets for them to spend on a bit of extra shopping or something for the children.
Some will buy ciggies of course but one mum has a bit of a treat and then her child benefits too what's not to like ?

ISNT · 28/01/2011 11:02

I don;t understand why a vulnerable woman with PND is in a better position to help herself than someone like my dad (healthy and wealthy pensioner) TBH.

To say that all old people are needy and all mothers are strong and healthy with no need of assistance from anyone is wrong.

Help should be targeted at where it is needed, and at where it makes the most difference.

mamatomany · 28/01/2011 11:00

atomicdust if you've been through the training course I can't see how you could not know about the amount of social services exchange of information at best, but I'd say interference considering Home Start is a charity.
The exact words used were, you are our eyes and ears on the ground, I felt very uncomfortable.

WorzselMummage · 28/01/2011 10:45

Because they help people who can't help themselves they have to help people that can too ?

And if I'd have slipped a tenner In the collection tin it would probably have ended up being used to pay for someone to have a makeover or something so I decided against it.

atomicdust · 28/01/2011 10:42

mamatomany surely they would be "some conflicting" interest if the home-start manager was doing 2 part-time jobs, one for homestart and one for the council!....

it's even worse than I thought.

anyway, going to meet my Homestart family as I'm a new volunteer for homestart.

hope I'll be more positive, by actually seing some positive outcomes from homestart...

maybe then go to surestart for confidence boosting....
Smile

QuintessentialShadows · 28/01/2011 10:40

Imagine how much money the government would be making if they added an additional 20% luxury VAT on alcohol and tobacco! And used this to fund health services....

No need to close sure start centres then...

mamatomany · 28/01/2011 10:39

It was a nice massage !

I'm sure you could have slipped a tenner in the collection tin if being massaged for free offended you so much !

PepperMoonchild · 28/01/2011 10:37

I attend Surestart with my ds, I find it invaluable as I've struggled with mental health issues in the past and getting out to meet people and get the advice of the staff is a life line for me.
In attending the groups I have seen lots of women being given what would be considered on here very basic advice but advice these women and children would not have d otherwise. About healthy eating, behaviour, breast / bottle feeding and development. Other groups are opportunities for new mums to socialise that's true, but it's the advice and care professionals that make sure start different. A lot of women in my area have no internet, no car, if they are away from their family they have no support at all. The early years are the best time to catch these children and it would be devastating to lose Surestart.

mamatomany · 28/01/2011 10:37

You think mums with fully working bodies and brains are more important than vulnerable infirm elderly people ?

No I think both are equally important and can be vulnerable - or not, if you can help one group, you must help the other.

But surely, the " qualified social worker who was employed by HS as she was the one who interviewed me" was not employed any longer by Social Services?

Not necessarily, she could be employed by both the council and hs, I take your point but my point was that there was a presence/imput/helping hand whatever you want to call it and it wasn't advertised to the people signing up for HS's "help".

WorzselMummage · 28/01/2011 10:31

It was a nice massage !

My confidence and wellbeing were boosted by promising myself never ever to go back.

The next week they were doing manicures and henna hand painting though..shame.

Hmm
atomicdust · 28/01/2011 10:27

WorzselMummag

Hope you did enjoy the massage!
Grin

surely it improved your confidence and well-beeing!!!
Wink

atomicdust · 28/01/2011 10:24

Mamatomany

But surely, the " qualified social worker who was employed by HS as she was the one who interviewed me" was not employed any longer by Social Services?

WorzselMummage · 28/01/2011 10:23

mamatomany Thu 27-Jan-11 22:44:44
"We have day centers for the elderly who have had 40 years to make friends and have pissed off all their family have none so why not some provision for mums"

Seriously ?

You think mums with fully working bodies and brains are more important than vulnerable infirm elderly people ?

The council here have today announced that theyare ceasing to fund the local elderly supported meeting/lunch place with no provision for anything else.

I'd rather the council funded that than a tea group for mums who are actually capable of helping themselves!

The one and only time I went to a sure start meet I got given a bloody massage! Hardly essential!

cazzybabs · 28/01/2011 10:12

yes it is the job of the state. good pre-school care/education is crucial for narrowing social divide and helping all children reach their potential. Money does not make you a good parent - everyone needs access to these services

mamatomany · 28/01/2011 10:08

Our local home start had 2 uni students who were planning to be to be social workers doing their placement year with them under the guidence of a qualified social worker who was employed by HS as she was the one who interviewed me, I got that impression because they told me so.

Hopelesslydisorganised · 28/01/2011 09:36

My local SureStart runs:

Speech and Language support
Teen parent parenting courses
Outreach workers for home support
Postnatal depression support groups
Feelings and wishes groups for children who have witnessed domestic violence.
Domestic violence ouytreach support for women
Play support and advice for parents
Fathers groups
Citizens Advice support for debt and budgeting.

..... and that is not an exhaustive list. In particular the domestic violence based support is well attended (sadly) as well as the post natal depression support. How sad if we were to lose all of this to save money. It's a false economy anyway because it will end up costing more without the support.

hsjfdk · 28/01/2011 09:28

mamatomany - homestart doesn't employ social workers - not sure why you're under that impression?

atomicdust · 27/01/2011 23:39

local community initiatives are always best...but they do not ge much publicity / busy doing work instead of PR....

atomicdust · 27/01/2011 23:38

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cat64 · 27/01/2011 23:38

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