Sure Start and communty midwife groups being shut down

What is a sure start director?

Which centres are closing?

Am I the only person who has barely ever used Surestart? We didn't have one locally until much later than everywhere else.

We still have a place called a "Children's centre" in town, are those being closed down, too?

While I appreciate that there are many opportunities available for new mums to get out and about, I have to say that our local SureStart centre (now run by Spurgeons) has made a real effort to reach out to the community. I live in an extremely rural area (3 miles to nearest shop!) and they have started an activity playgroup in my village, just once a week. Means that we can go out once a week without having to take the car... and we are in the fortunate position of being a 2 car family! Many of the other mums in the village don't have a car, and their options for socialising are far more limited.

i guess moondog was a company director / trustee for the charity as well?

Why is that weird?

Sorry - have I misunderstood? You were a director for a Surestart organisation and did it for nothing. Weird!

FWIW our SS mother and baby groups do wash up on a rota. They are full as well - citizens advice do the benefit stuff and if I think a family will benefit then bloody right I refer them.

What about SN groups being run on SS premises? Are the "close em all down" brigade okay with that too?

People don't need these centres all their lives ( up until children are 5 in my area) and not all centres have the free childcare moondog talks of. Our local centre doesn't and even in the centres which do ( based in the most deprived areas) there is limited funding for these spaces and often they are time limited to get families over a period of crisis or funded by social services to give those children in difficult families some normal socialisation and play. The way some people tell it here seems to suggest free childcare for all and that just is not the case.

There is a fine line between providing help and support to those who need it at a time of crisis and making those people dependant on support, where they expect to be assisted all through their life.

And even more when SS / homestart is supposed to equip families with life skills (parenting, positive authority, resilience to stressful situations, work qualifications...)...

It's all about empowering.

But yes I totally agree with Moondog that some paid employees (as opposed to directors / trustees) do seem to grossy exagerate the benefits of their intervention, the needs of the service users and personally benefit from a culture of assistance.

Money??
I did it for nothing.
Twelve to fifteen meetings a year for many years.

I gradually got to feel like that as time went on and it was apparent that we were complicit in maintaining a client state (despite having fabulous people on board.

Yes, I was honest about it and tried very hard to get them to consider more 'stakeholder engagement'

Simple things like drawing up a cleaning/washing up/ weeding rota for parents.

Never happened. They would just drop htheir kids off and bugger off. No interest or involvement.

Benefit 'workshops' were always ful lto bursting thoguh.

moondog Since you've said you were a Sure Start director for many years, got to ask: was it that experience that has made you feel this way about them? Or did you keep quiet about it while in that position and receiving the money? (I'm assuming there were no 'feelings and wishes' groups at the SSs under your jurisdiction.)

I went to (nearly) free HV-run baby massage classes (50p for tea and biscuits) long before Sure Start was ever dreamed up. The services can exist without the Sure Start label.

So I see the key issue as being what comes into being next, rather than the idea that there is change.

Ah I UNDERSTAND IT SO CLEARLY NOW.
Baby ballet, massage, henna tattoos and 'feeling and wishes' groups prevent society being run through by feral youth.

HopeleeslyDisorganised, bullet did use the word flowery but was not disputing the use of ss to support kids who had experienced dv, it may have been the quoted bit of moondogs post by bullet that has caused confusion

Mylife, why is it the government's job to equip you for life with a baby?

I guess the truth is that if they don't in too many cases they need to build more prisons so the government pays one way or another unless you want to go back just hanging those who break the law we have to prevent it in the first place.

I've been debt laden, benefit claiming, suffered PTSD and debilitating anxiety,had 2 v poorly premature children, lived in 4 different parts ofthe country where I have known no-one.. Etc etc etc etc.

Not exactly perfect it is.

... actually I rather feel that this thread is filled with smug arseholes with sorted and organised lives who don't and probably never needed the services of SS. Lucky you.

If you are depressed
If you have been in an abusive relationship
If you are a struggling single Mum or Dad with debt
Or anything else which might affect a child then the service can and has been of use.

Condemning things you've been fortunate enough never to need smacks of a smug and self centred attitude. Great - congratulate yourselves for being perfect enough not to want or need

What about Refuges who use these services? Are they a waste if time too?

bullet not sure our local Women's Refuge would agree with you about their input for traumatised children bring a "waste of time".

Nothing flowery about children who have lived through hell I can assure you. The Refuge Outreach worker who provides support to the SS centre and runs the group is able to help these children which is more than smug and shitty attitudes like yours do.

Nice attitude.

Blimey Moondog, who bit you?

Not sure you even read my posts

I think ss does need some cutting, free kindermusik and baby ballet classes and new centres in wealthy suburbs with good public transport are not easily defensible given current econ climate but imo ss provides an important safety net for those dealing with mh issues and ime provided useful short term help for my child with SN when stuck on long nhs lists, the Hanen You Make the Difference course

We get ourselves out of this mess by taking some responsibility for ourselves and stop bloody well expecting to be spoon fed.

If the OP can manage to post on line here can she not actually look on google and find groups in her neighbourhood or organise a mumsnetter meet up.

The country is like it is because everyone expects to have their bloody hand held.

"My local Sure start runs

'Feelings and wishes groups for children who have witnessed domestic violence.'

Jesus, that is all the evidence we need to show they are a completely self indulgent waste of time.

What absolute bollocks."

Why? The name may be rather flowery but isn't it a form of group counselling to help children come to terms with traumatic incidents?

Oh FGS, Mylife, why is it the government's job to equip you for life with a baby?
Jeez, it's not rocket science.
How about al ittle bit of that quaint concept know as 'taking personal responsibility'?

There are no Sure starts in my area, I take my young daughter to church clubs, of which there are quite a few. If you drive, there may be one not too far from you, or even local.

Glad to see I somehow measure up

What can be done though? Should we just withdraw all forms of support in the interests of saving money and simply let people sink or swim based on their own ability to organise support? Our society is broken and sick - I truely believe that. It terrifies me the amount of people who have no practical experience of child-rearing until their screaming PFB is handed to them in hospital - as testified by many threads on here. At least those posters who reach MN are capable of using their own initiative to do some research. Sadly there are many more without even that level of support. So I do think (hope?) that Early Years interventions can provide some practical use. I don't think it is really a substitute for family or community support though. Probably these schemes are little better than papering over the cracks . Like I said though, do we just let people sink though?

Who knows how we really get ourselves out of this mess?

To go back to the OP, these services existed before the name Sure Start was coined.

It seems many will no longer be brigaded in dedicated buildings, but the important thing is whether the previous providers will be able to restore their earlier service provision.