Posh and Posher: Why Public School Boys Run Britain

So those who fail the exam can go to schools with less facilities and bigger class sizes, hardly seems fair and it is elitist

"But I am sure that Gove and his advisers are doing their best to increase the standard of education at all schools"

:o :o :o :o what a comedian you are

I didn't say grammar schools for all. I said more grammar schools. Entrance exams available to all who wish to take them.

I don't understand why other schools can't be modelled on our top grammar schools. I don't know enough about it. But I am sure that Gove and his advisers are doing their best to increase the standard of education at all schools.

claig, you said grammar schools for ALL no selection was mentioned.

No time soon. That is what should happen. But the progressives have even infected many Tories, and Cameron et al. haven't got the courage to reintroduce grammar schools and selection. But one day it will happen. Unfortunately we will have to wait years for the legacy of the progressives to be completely discredited.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I am starting to think a lot of the reasons are based around expectation and determination of the individual and the parents themselves.

I know that my parents generation experienced a great deal of social mobility, despite coming from poor and underprivilaged backgrounds so I think we need to stop making excuses for people NOT to do as well as they can, and start having MUCH higher expectations of people DESPITE their various backgrounds.

Three generations ago, during WW1, my Grandfather's parents were tythe workers on a farm - no money, education AND they were expected to toe the line. When G.Grandfather went to fight, the whole family was thrown out of the tythe cottage as he'd been TOLD to stay and work by the then landowner. DESPITE the various disadvantages my family - on both sides - have faced, my generation are all home owners, who are well educated and work.

Grandparents had little education and rubbish jobs, plus poor prospects. They seemed to have really high expectations of their children, including the girls. Hence IMVHO, two generations on we've gone from poor to quite well off.

So, what does hold people back?

Maybe a sense that even if they don't try life should be handed to them on a plate and the playing field should be completely fair and even...

Well, life isn't fair in any sense, nor can we engineer a society to have equal outcomes for everyone. I would love to see more women and a wider diversity of backgrounds represented in the Cabinet, but lets stop making excuses and start having high expectations of all our young people - even the ones on council estates who go to comprehensive school.

We have free healthcare, education and a wide range of support and opportunities in our society, if people are willing to work hard and take the opportunities. It's not as easy as it was 2 generations ago as there are more people and so more competition, but it can be done.

Jack, I would draw your attention to an earlier post by myself which notes the feeder schools for Toby Young's school. The nearest (poor area) primary school is excluded but schools in more affluent areas further away are included.

BTW did you know that money was taken from other local school budgets to pay for Toby Young's school.

Claig, your a genius, the only criteria to enter the top public schools will be the entrance exam and no amount of money will get you in if you fail the exam AND if you haven't got the money for the fee,s it's free.

When do you think they will send letters asking for all the children and parents throughout the UK who want to, to apply to take the exam.

NewWave - A Grammar School for all.

Actually there is a sizeable number of bursaries for Eton. And St Paul's aims to be needs blind - but not for a good many years as it needs to build funds. The older and richer a school is the more likely it is to be able to support some students from less well off backgrounds. Not enough, granted, but if you are interested it is worth requesting information from these schools.

I think people from other countries don't choose to send their children to Finnish schools because fluent Finnish isn't a lingua franca for many top-earning professions.

Bumps, I don't think any Oxbridge 'MA' should use that title in a professional context and I always feel slightly contemptuous when I see one on a CV. It's an honorary title - I had great fun being awarded mine, it was a fun day out and a nice college reunion, but it's not a professional qualification. An Oxbridge undergraduate degree may be harder work (debateable - many people in all universities massively overshoot the basic requirements for their degree) but it's not equivalent to a taught or research Masters IMO.

I mention Labour politicians in case some people are under the delusion that they are on the side of the people. They speak with forked tongue. I know that you know that, but some people have been tricked by them.

I agree that there is no enough competition in the state sector. There is some - in Maths for example but I would be more than happy with more.

I deliberately put my DC's in a position where they have to compete, but it is out of school unfortunately.

It is vital people learn how to lose. If they don't it stops them trying new things for a fear of failing. And then the rest is history, as they say.

I couldnt stand it if my dc's turned out like those awful two Eton pupils that were interviewed! They can keep their Eton education - what a couple of pricks

oneglass, Give the same money and facilities to all not just another elite.

Claigs idea of Grammars for all is great.

Claig, why do you keep metioning Labour politicians, I have almost as much contempt for most of them as i have for Dave and Gideon and the rest of the Tory party.

Eton is a fantastic school. It is unique in all the world. Anybody who passes the entrance exam should have their fees paid for by the state. Instead of blowing money on the Dome and the Olympics and MPs' expenses, let's invest for the future by giving children the best education possible. They'll pay us back tenfold.

"You don't enter the top public schools by money alone. They are very competitive and the entrance exams are tough"

Again your right, lets have everyone taking the entrance exam for Eton etc and if you pass your in and no matter how much or little money you have if you fail then take your money and piss off.

Eton for all not just the rich

Claig is right. But no point in sending anyone who isn't bright to a grammar. That is not their function. Good grammars and independents thrive on everyone being very bright, being constantly tested and challenged, no room for anyone who can't keep up under pressure.

If you aren't academic you would hate the constant testing. My children have three tests at least a week. Long lists of vocabulary feature heavily. If you can't learn quickly you can't keep up. If you can learn quickly you enjoy the fast pace of lessons and find it fun to acquire learning at this rate.

That's why these guys get to the top. They've been trained to thrive on pressure.

Let's give all children the same chance as Tony Blair's and Diane Abbott's children. They're Labour, aren't they? Surely, what's good enough for them, is good enough for us?

You don't enter the top public schools by money alone. They are very competitive and the entrance exams are tough. Let's stop the politically correct socialists preventing state school children from being prepped for the entrance exams. Let's give all children a fair chance, not just those who can afford tutors and prep schools. There are tens of thousands of bright state school children who are capable of passing these exams if they are allowed to be prepped by their schools.

Ok i am on board, so it's grammar schools complete with smaller class sizes and better facilities for EVERY state pupil, an end to comps.

What a good idea.

Leave the top private schools as they are. Reintroduce selection and grammar schools, and improve comprehensives by increasing standards, removing modularisation and bringing back a competitive spirit.

Why would it cost any more? Why would anybody be underfunded?

I agree, the English language is important. But there are British and American schools in every country. Why don't the oligarchs send their children to American schools in America. I think it is because we have the best, most famous schools in the entire world. Everybody worldwide knows of Eton and Harrow and Cheltenham and Roedean. Try naming any schools from any other country.

We are top in education, and our grammar schools were able to compete with our private schools. But someone took the ladder away and stopped ordinary children accessing them. Now the top public schools have less competition, and our country is not maximising the potential of our children.

My guess is that if Eton conducted all lessons in Latin and Ancient Greek, it would become an even bigger magnet for the elite. It is all about distinction and elitism.

Doh "academic status"

Academic abilities, money alone will be the entrance criteria

craig.

So let me get this right:

Elite private schools for the rich regardless of their academic status

Grammar schools can have extra resources and smaller class sizes for the pushy middle class and a few of the clever working class.

And the rest can got to hell or the local underfunded comp whichever is nearer.

Claig, going back to your earlier point, children from overseas don't in general go to Finnish schools because Finnish is not the most useful language out there

I have a sneaking suspicion that if Eton taught in Welsh or Flemish, even with exactly the same quality of education and resources, there wouldn't be queues of baby oligarchs waiting to get in . . .

There was a time when bright, middle class children went to grammar schools, and it was mainly the less able middle classes children who went to private schools. The upper classes went to (often pretty lack lustre) boarding schools.

But luckily for the ailing independent sector - the state pretty much gave up it's role in educating the academic elite. Now even the boarding schools can be academically selective. As for the London day schools - only the academic 'creme de la creme' with wealthy parents need apply (and probably still won't get a place).