Privatisation: can anyone give me an example of where it's really worked well?

Interesting Link bit.ly/e4TfdW says it all really.

LFN. Are you not worried, that those who shout the loudest, and know the system will receive care under their GP and others will not. The shouting the loudest will of course 'include me'. I'm worried that others may not get the services?

Also who chooses 'what to ration' your GP? How does it work? Say I live in a wealthy area, and people do not suffer so much from certain ailments. Another poorer area spends more on healthcare. Are all practices going to get the same amount of cash?

I'm the last one to disagree with the Coalition, as I feel they (Cameron) have
done some positive things but this new NHS policy, does not seem thought out.

Where will it benefit us as patients?

Cannot give you an example of where it works well WinkyWinkola, but can point out this myth.

The National Health service is improved because of private Finance. Is it Hell!

It cost Catalyst a private company 9 Million to build and run a hospital in Wandsworth, The Wandsworth Trust now have to pay back that at the rate of 10 Million a year up until 2034.These costs may go toward explaining why so many national health service beds have been lost in recent years. We have a UK deficit of 150 billion,which does not include the 200 billion debt repayment for private finance initiatives. These payments being mandatory explains why though The Coalition 'ring-fenced' the Health Service there are still cuts to Health services, to pay these hidden mandatory repayments.

This article by Tim Harford (R4 More or Less presenter) makes interesting reading.

Why millions of the world?s poor still choose to go private.

The article considers why millions of the worlds poor choose private healthcare and education over publicly provided services.

Even where the "government healthcare and primary education are free; the private-sector doctors are ignorant quacks and the teachers are poorly qualified; the private schools are cramped and often illegal."

The reason being that ?under-qualified private-sector doctors, although they know less, provide better care on average than their better-qualified counterparts in the public sector?. Because private-sector doctors don?t get paid unless they convince their patients that they?re doing a decent job. Public-sector doctors are salaried and, if they are not nearly so accountable.

And with education - the outperformance of the private schools ? in spite of low budgets and teachers with sometimes doubtful qualifications ? is not a surprise when one looks at the weaknesses of state-run schools in some developing countries with salaried teachers sleeping in lessons in the public schools.

I am in no way comparing our NHS or state schools with those in developing countries. But this article does illustrate the value of accountability and motivation in delivering services.

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There is no reason a nationalised industry cannot be as efficient and able to respond to the needs of the market/consumers. You can retain the skilled workforce, renumerate the CEO/Board, senior execs at a competitive level and make profit for re-investment in the business. All you are doing is removing the obligation to the shareholders (which, despite any mission statement of any company, are still the priority -read any annual report. And not fleece your customers at the same time unlike water/electricity/gas/railways/telecomms etc etc.

agree with most of what newwave has said. MPs employ managers to run the NHS, they don't have to do it themselves.

They employ generals to run the army. Do you think it would be a good idea to privatise the army?

Some things are best done by the nation as a whole, and shouldn't be handed over to business, as Blair was so keen on doing.

NG2.

Dont have a problem with private companies at all however I do have a problem with Public companies being sold far to cheap and becoming private monopolies (can I choose which water company I use?).

How about we pay the experts to run the Railways for the benefit of the public and not board members and shareholders.

How about we take greater care to stop price collusion in the energy market.

How about we set a maximum profit/return any privatised utility can make and do not allow price increases above the CPI.

How about we break up the banks so we cannot be held to ransom again.

How about we stop "private profit but public debt" (Banks and Railtrack)

How about we stop Tescos and others gaining a near monopoly share of the market.

How about worker representatives being a legal requirement in the boardroom so things cannot be hidden from the workforce.

'FFS, talk about deluded.'
I take it you are referring to newwave.

Doh

Sounds like you've thrown the towel in, realised the error of your ways, and are determined to make amends by becoming an enthusiastic Tory supporter, championing the Big Society. I knew that would happen, it was just a matter of time until you saw things clearly.

Claig is it getting cold in here, must be hell freezing over. :o

'Not looking for a fight' what on earth has come over you? Are you alright?

Claig is it getting cold in here, must be hell freezing over. :o

I really don't understand.

So in this country privatisation = bad. Why? because evil companies make profits. Money which they could otherwise simply be spending on improving their service....right?

So instead I guess the alternate argument would be to nationalise said companies?

Who'd be in charge then? Our lovely MP's who are all so intelligent, honest and trustworthy right?

They always act with our best interests at heart don't they and are of course experts in running gas companies, train companies, telecoms, water, electricity?

Life was great when everything was nationalised wasn't it? British Rail was just the model of efficiency yes? BT connected you in hours, not weeks yes?

FFS, talk about deluded.

Sounds like you've thrown the towel in, realised the error of your ways, and are determined to make amends by becoming an enthusiastic Tory supporter, championing the Big Society. I knew that would happen, it was just a matter of time until you saw things clearly.

'Not looking for a fight' what on earth has come over you? Are you alright?

Most of you are far to east to best in a "fight" :o

LFN, I can just see the headlines.

DOCTOR PATEL REFUSES SIX YEAR OLD GIRL LIFE SAVING TREATMENT.

Or.

BIG-CORP INTERNATIONAL THE USA COMPANY WHO MANAGE OF LARGE GROUP OF PRACTISES, SAYS WE CANT AFFORD TO SAVE SIX YEAR OLD ANNES LIFE.

There will be trouble ahead because the refuser is easy to identify.

newwave I agree that there will be massive problems with rare, expensive conditions - but my point is, there are massive problems already!

The truth is slowly dawning on most of the Western world that we will get good basic healthcare, but we simply won't treated for rare conditions because the treatments are too expensive.

That is going to happen however the healthcare is funded (taxpayer, insurance, co-payment, whatever) or however the healthcare is delivered (state-run hospitals, co-operative hospitals, private hospitals, or whatever).

Rationing is a way of life for the foreseeable future. It's happening everywhere on the planet, and it's going to happen more and more.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing systemically, although it is obviously heartbreaking for those denied treatment. It means that we get more and more research into new medicines and treatments, and prices for existing medicines and treatments become cheaper and cheaper.

'Not looking for a fight' what on earth has come over you? Are you alright?

LFN how about you opinion on my "Anne" question and we all being "private" patients. Not looking for a fight just your opinion, from the other side of the political divide as it were.

LFN/Winky.

I would like to see the larger stores such as Tesco and sainsbury only being allowsed a certain number of stores or percentage of the market this would allow other players and would increase competition, same with the banks.

I would also like to see legal penalties for screwing up a customer such as in my case if you dont deliver on the day you say I would be entitled to a refund of say 15% of the cost of the item. Or if you screw up my standing orders i can claim £100 as compensation.

I am against most of the privatisation, and against what will be done to the Royal Mail. It will create a worse service for us, and we will pay through the nose, and the profits will not go to the people. The NI water board had massive problems due to persistent lack of investment in modernising the Victorian system.

But let's not forget that one of the reasons that we have to privatise is because of the EU's competition charter. They are against state subsidies, and want Europe wide competition.

Sorry - I haven't sussed adding links properly, but this article might be of interest.

hbr.org/2011/01/the-big-idea-creating-shared-value/ar/1

WinkyWinkola Oh, I agree entirely - there has to be genuine competition. That is the big problem with the way the railways were privatised.

There is a strong argument that in such situations, there shouldn't be a privatisation at all, but ministers shouldn't run things either - probably a quango, or co-operative, or something.

There is certainly plenty of competition amongst medical suppliers though. To me, the NHS seems ripe for privatisation.

Jack, it was until the privatisation of BT and for sometime after. I said it was until someone decided there was a profit to be made.

It sticks in my mind because my company sent a message saying please avoid using the directory of enquiries now they are charging, sorry I cant remember the date though.

Jack, it was until the privatisation of BT and for sometime after. I said it was until someone decided there was a profit to be made.

It sticks in my mind because my company sent a message saying please avoid using the directory of enquiries now they are charging, sorry I cant remember the date though.