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Original poster

The Elderly. Try and put yourself into their shoes.

63 replies

ivanhoe · 24/01/2011 13:32

You have paid into the system all your working life, and for a lot less money than today, and all the Government can pay you back is a £97 a week State pension.

Try and put yourself in their shoes.

How would you "feel" about this ?

Now forget the age you are, put yourself in the position of an elderly person knowing you have worked hard all your lives payng into the system.

How do you "feel" ?

OP posts:
SallyVate · 25/01/2011 12:04

There won't even be a state pension for my generation. Considering those people drawing their pensions now have been lucky enough to skim the cream from the 20th Century, and are also almost one of the only groups still receiving universal benefits, I think YABU.

(and a bit preachy)

Chil1234 · 25/01/2011 12:01

Go on Ivanhoe... have a go :) If you can explain why my good friend Mike, a retired director of an engineering firm with a five bed detached house in Surrey, motor-launch, Mercedes and fat company pension could do with having his state pension trebled, I'm all ears.

SallyVate · 25/01/2011 11:47

Footgloves

Original poster
ivanhoe · 25/01/2011 11:46

Even if I did explain it, I dont think you could understand it, so I wont bother.

OP posts:
ArcticLemming · 25/01/2011 11:02

The first thing I'd be pised off about is being referred to as "the elderly". Older people.

Chil1234 · 25/01/2011 10:58

Thank you, yes, I can think what I like but I'm parroting no-one. There may be enough money in the coffers to give every single person of pension age £400 a week but you haven't really explained why that is a good idea beyond redistribution of wealth.

My parents paid NI contributions, worked all their lives and are now in their seventies and retired. They were manual/clerical workers, not company directors, and grew up with a strong savings & thrift ethic. They did not qualify for company pensions. However, they did not rely on the state pension, planned accordingly and are enjoying a comfortable retirement. A work-colleague of my mother's decided to 'spend the lot & let the government look after me' (I quote) and now lives on the state pension with credit top-ups, also reasonably comfortably.

Private pensions may be insecure but they are only one way of many to finance old age.

Original poster
ivanhoe · 25/01/2011 10:41

Chil1234, You can think what you like, you are parroting the medfia and the politicians.

There is more than enough money in the general sense, to pay our elderly people are decent State pension.

Thee are 12 million penbsioners in Britain, right wing Government's since the 80's have been usinbg just 5 per cent of our GNP to fund State pensions, that figure could be easilky doubled or trebled for our elderly people.

You see, we do not have a wealth problem in Britain, what we have is a waelth distribution problem.

And this problem is also going to effect our young people when they are old, ie our young people are still paying NI conhtrbitions, but what for ?

Because the coalition are reducing the role of what the State should provide, in favour of privatisation, and private pensions are too expensive and ultimately insecure.

Wheras the State is secure, but we are allk being brainwashed to demonise the State.

OP posts:
Chil1234 · 25/01/2011 10:14

I think you're generalising. Many people of pension age have worked and contributed their whole lives and have not expected the pension to end up being their sole source of income in later life. Many have wisely put aside savings, made investments and other provisions. The ones that have been unable or unwilling to make extra provision are in the minority and, yes, many of them are poor as a result. Pension credits are there as a top up.

In a society where the number of people over 60 is expected to keep rising as a proportion of the total population the task has been for every government for at least the last 30 years to encourage as many of us as possible to make better plans for our retirement. Stake-holder pensions, tax-relief on contributions and so forth. It makes more sense to top up the income of poor pensioners than to pay retired company directors extra money as standard.

kerstina · 25/01/2011 09:54

Thank you for this Ivanhoe it has really made me think.
I was very angry about the Iraq war and I find it so hard to let go . So many wasted lives so much wasted money.
I am split between the greens and labour can I ask who you voted for ? I want to join one or the other officially can anyone persuade me either way ?

Original poster
ivanhoe · 24/01/2011 14:50

A few facts for you that have responded so far, and in no particular order.

Means testing pensioners is costing £15 per person per pensioner.

Restoring the State pension link with national average wages would cost £5 per person per pensioner.

Conclusion ?. Means testing pensioners on a miserly £97 a week is costing more tax payers money than the restoration of the earnings link would cost.

Conclusion ?. The media and the politicians are keeping us in the dark.

The reason ?. Because right wing politics since Thatcher, ensures the demise of what the State provides, including a "State pension".

Fact. The Tory lead coalition are sitting on a National Insurance "surplus" of £40 billion, but the coalition are using this money for other things.

So, including foreign wars, upholding third worl countries, funding into the EU of £50 million a day, Britain is a very wealthy country.

Our big problem in this country has always been that we are not consolidated as a nation, we are infact very easily devided, and we are class entrenched.

OP posts:
Sariska · 24/01/2011 14:29

Goodness only knows. Reassess spending priorities, I suppose. Illegal wars that also did not have a popular mandate would seem to be a good place to start - although, in many ways, that is the easy (and certainly incomplete) answer.

Original poster
ivanhoe · 24/01/2011 14:15

Exactly.

Next question, what are "we" going to do about not only changing the fortunes of our elderly people, but also changing the fortunes of tommorrow's elderly people ?

OP posts:
Sariska · 24/01/2011 13:53

Resentful, resigned, angry? Some combination of these.

But I trust I'd also remember everything else my NICs and tax had paid for: healthcare, education, perhaps Child Benefit and Income Support.

And I would worry about my children and grandchildren who were also paying into "the system" in just the way I did but with even fewer guarantees of what they'd eventually get at the end.

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